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Archive of: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Archive desc: The Internet home for the Heinlein Forum
Archived by: webnews@sff.net
Archive date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 14:44:53
============================================================
Article 22810
From: fader555@aol.com (Fader)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:34:31 GMT
Subject: Re: DSL ?????
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 05:33:39 GMT, fader555@aol.com (Fader) wrote:
DSL is up & running, what a PIA to get it going, like 5 hrs on the
phone with various tech support to get it working & configured
properly. I'm still not sure if the portal itself is registered right,
more work is still called for. Zonealarm went nuts for the first
couple hrs, throwing alerts up & asking if this or that was allowed to
access the net & blocking something like 120 or so attempts of the net
to access my computer, fun for all.
Anyhoo, we're up & running, thanx for all the good advice. E-mail the
old address for a return with new info, I'll probably be closing the
AOL sometime in the next couple/three weeeks.
Deb: somewhere you asked about a poem from GC that you wanted to put
up from Beth, is this my Beth, let me know & I'll ask her.
Fader Faster (I promise only this once<G>)
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22811
From: David M. Silver"
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 03:11:24 -0700
Subject: Re: DSL ?????
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
In article <3f5eea72.1563989@news.sff.net>, fader555@aol.com (Fader)
wrote:
> Fader Faster (I promise only this once<G>)
Fader Faster Further
Is that like:
Hic Haec Hoc.
(Not so easily let off the hook for that, Fader. God will remember it
for a looooong time.)
--
David M. Silver www.heinleinsociety.org
"The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!"
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA '29, Lt.(jg), USN, R'td, 1907-88
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22812
From: Filksinger"
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 07:33:39 -0700
Subject: Re: DSL ?????
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Fader,
Keep an eye on any programs that want to connect to the Internet, especially
if they want to register as a server, but don't worry about the "intrusion
attempts". Set ZoneAlarm to not tell you about "intrusion attempts". That's
really code for "any number of normal activities that I haven't been told
explicitly are normal, plus automated worm attacks on the Internet that have
been stopped, plus other potentially harmful things that haven't done
anything yet." For example, your ISP might send pings to see if you are
currently connected and to monitor that connection for problems, like packet
loss.
Keep in mind that if ZoneAlarm warned you, ZoneAlarm blocked the attempt,
and no further response is required.
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
Fader wrote:
> On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 05:33:39 GMT, fader555@aol.com (Fader) wrote:
>
> DSL is up & running, what a PIA to get it going, like 5 hrs on the
> phone with various tech support to get it working & configured
> properly. I'm still not sure if the portal itself is registered right,
> more work is still called for. Zonealarm went nuts for the first
> couple hrs, throwing alerts up & asking if this or that was allowed to
> access the net & blocking something like 120 or so attempts of the net
> to access my computer, fun for all.
>
> Anyhoo, we're up & running, thanx for all the good advice. E-mail the
> old address for a return with new info, I'll probably be closing the
> AOL sometime in the next couple/three weeeks.
>
> Deb: somewhere you asked about a poem from GC that you wanted to put
> up from Beth, is this my Beth, let me know & I'll ask her.
>
> Fader Faster (I promise only this once<G>)
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22813
From: fader555@aol.com (Fader)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 22:11:02 GMT
Subject: Re: DSL ?????
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 03:11:24 -0700, "David M. Silver"
<ag.plusone@verizon.net> wrote:
>Is that like:
>Hic Haec Hoc.
>
There's a character in a Bester book, The Computer Connection, with a
name like that, a immortal caveman, named such because he makes sounds
like that.
>(Not so easily let off the hook for that, Fader. God will remember it
>for a looooong time.)
God & I have an agreement, I try to forget the things he lets happen
(in his professional persona) as quickly as I'm able, & he being
better than me (one really hopes so anyway) forgets my indescretions
immediately<g>
Fader
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22814
From: fader555@aol.com (Fader)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 22:19:59 GMT
Subject: Re: DSL ?????
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 07:33:39 -0700, "Filksinger"
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:
>Fader,
>
>Keep an eye on any programs that want to connect to the Internet, especially
>if they want to register as a server, but don't worry about the "intrusion
>attempts". Set ZoneAlarm to not tell you about "intrusion attempts". That's
>really code for "any number of normal activities that I haven't been told
>explicitly are normal, plus automated worm attacks on the Internet that have
>been stopped, plus other potentially harmful things that haven't done
>anything yet." For example, your ISP might send pings to see if you are
>currently connected and to monitor that connection for problems, like packet
>loss.
Most of what wanted to connect were things that should be able to like
AOL.EXE or Ie.exe, as far as I could tell. Any that I was unsure about
I asked for more info & if I still didn't know what it was I denied
access, it caused a few things to not work right till I got the hang
of it, but that part went relatively smoothly.
I'm just blown away by the speed, I DLed a WIN Critical update which
it said would've taken 4Hrs at the old speed in like 4min, be still my
beating heart.<g> The computing world is going to have to really come
up with something good to impress me the next time.
Fader
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22815
From: Filksinger"
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 01:35:54 -0700
Subject: Columbia Accident Investigation Board report
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Anybody here read the report about the latest Space Shuttle disaster? It is
a much more interesting read than one would expect of a government report on
a disaster.
In particular, it heavily blames NASA's organizational culture for the
disaster.
If you don't want to read the whole thing, chapters 2, 3, and 7 are the most
interesting. You can find it at http://www.caib.us/news/report/default.html.
It's pretty hefty, so you may want to download it in chapters.
Here's a particularly interesting piece of the document, from chapter 7:
"ORGANIZATIONAL CAUSE STATEMENT
The organizational causes of this accident are rooted in the Space Shuttle
Program's history and culture, including the original compromises that were
required to gain approval for the Shuttle Program, subsequent years of
resource constraints, fluctuating priorities, schedule pressures,
mischaracterizations of the Shuttle as operational rather than
developmental, and lack of an agreed national vision. Cultural traits and
organizational practices detrimental to safety and reliability were allowed
to develop, including: reliance on past success as a substitute for sound
engineering practices (such as testing to understand why systems were not
performing in accordance with requirements/specifications); organizational
barriers which prevented effective communication of critical safety
information and stifled professional differences of opinion; lack of
integrated management across program elements; and the evolution of an
informal chain of command and decision-making processes that operated
outside the organization's rules."
Pretty damning, isn't it?
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22816
From: georule@civilwarstlouis.com
Date: 11 Sep 2003 15:29:14 GMT
Subject: THS Articles
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Couple new ones up:
http://www.heinleinsociety.org/news/president090803.html
http://www.heinleinsociety.org/news/trustmatchingfund.html
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22817
From: David M. Silver"
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 19:51:35 -0700
Subject: Re: DSL ?????
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
In article <3f5f9f38.44218895@news.sff.net>, fader555@aol.com (Fader)
wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 03:11:24 -0700, "David M. Silver"
> <ag.plusone@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >Is that like:
> >Hic Haec Hoc.
> >
> There's a character in a Bester book, The Computer Connection, with a
> name like that, a immortal caveman, named such because he makes sounds
> like that.
>
Interesting concept. I'll watch for it. Was the caveman's name Remus, or
Romulus?
> >(Not so easily let off the hook for that, Fader. God will remember it
> >for a looooong time.)
>
> God & I have an agreement, I try to forget the things he lets happen
> (in his professional persona) as quickly as I'm able, & he being
> better than me (one really hopes so anyway) forgets my indescretions
> immediately<g>
>
As He, as we know from Alex Graham/Alec Hergensheimer, always follows
all the rules! Good luck, Fader. ;-)
Jerry and I will keep a close watch on your estimated time of arrival
and a large butterfly net, handy.
--
David M. Silver www.heinleinsociety.org
"The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!"
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA '29, Lt.(jg), USN, R'td, 1907-88
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22818
From: fader555@aol.com (Fader)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:22:01 GMT
Subject: Re: DSL ?????
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
>As He, as we know from Alex Graham/Alec Hergensheimer, always follows
>all the rules! Good luck, Fader. ;-)
>
Nah, of course he don't, but being from NY, I expect that anyway, of
course I don't either. Which I suspect, he realizes, anyhoo it works
for me.
>
>Jerry and I will keep a close watch on your estimated time of arrival
>and a large butterfly net, handy.
>
Always thought that Jerry's concept would be fun, I drink single
malt/rocks, have one ready. Here's to being netted.
Fader
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22819
From: David M. Silver"
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:56:55 -0700
Subject: Re: DSL ?????
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
In article <3f615619.1604543@news.sff.net>, fader555@aol.com (Fader)
wrote:
> Always thought that Jerry's concept would be fun, I drink single
> malt/rocks, have one ready. Here's to being netted.
'twill be ready. ;-)
--
David M. Silver www.heinleinsociety.org
"The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!"
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA '29, Lt.(jg), USN, R'td, 1907-88
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22820
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 23:17:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Columbia Accident Investigation Board report
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 01:35:54 -0700, "Filksinger"
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:
<snip>
>outside the organization's rules."
>
>Pretty damning, isn't it?
Amen! it sure is.
Ed J
>Anybody here read the report about the latest Space Shuttle disaster? It is
>a much more interesting read than one would expect of a government report on
>a disaster.
>
>In particular, it heavily blames NASA's organizational culture for the
>disaster.
>
>If you don't want to read the whole thing, chapters 2, 3, and 7 are the most
>interesting. You can find it at http://www.caib.us/news/report/default.html.
>It's pretty hefty, so you may want to download it in chapters.
>
>Here's a particularly interesting piece of the document, from chapter 7:
>
>"ORGANIZATIONAL CAUSE STATEMENT
>The organizational causes of this accident are rooted in the Space Shuttle
>Program's history and culture, including the original compromises that were
>required to gain approval for the Shuttle Program, subsequent years of
>resource constraints, fluctuating priorities, schedule pressures,
>mischaracterizations of the Shuttle as operational rather than
>developmental, and lack of an agreed national vision. Cultural traits and
>organizational practices detrimental to safety and reliability were allowed
>to develop, including: reliance on past success as a substitute for sound
>engineering practices (such as testing to understand why systems were not
>performing in accordance with requirements/specifications); organizational
>barriers which prevented effective communication of critical safety
>information and stifled professional differences of opinion; lack of
>integrated management across program elements; and the evolution of an
>informal chain of command and decision-making processes that operated
>outside the organization's rules."
>
>Pretty damning, isn't it?
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22821
From: georule@civilwarstlouis.com
Date: 14 Sep 2003 23:13:00 GMT
Subject: Heinlein Prize
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Hmm. What have we here? www.heinleinprize.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22822
From: JT
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:11:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Heinlein Prize
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On 14 Sep 2003 23:13:00 GMT, georule@civilwarstlouis.com wrote:
>Hmm. What have we here? www.heinleinprize.com
There's a Harriman out there to get us our way out. ;)
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22823
From: RPostelnek"
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:52:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Reprinting Galactic Citizen
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
It's fine with me if you post my poems, as long as I retain some sort of
copyright. Please let me know where they will be.
Rosie
"Deb Houdek Rule" <debrule@dahoudek.com> wrote in message
news:3f356bc0.1393122704@NEWS.SFF.NET...
>
> I'd like to put elements from "Galactic Citizen" on our Heinlein
> website (http://www.robertaheinlein.com), in a Heinlein Forum
> section--been looking through the old issues and there's some really
> fine work in them (which I always knew), articles, artwork, poems, and
> fiction. I want to start with the most Heinlein-related stuff, plus
> the poems and artwork to act as illustrations, and expand from there
> into the fiction if it looks like the readers are appreciating it. I
> published the first four issues and WJaKe took over from there, but
> copyrights remained with the authors and artists.
>
> Here's the things I'd like to start with. Please let me know if it's
> okay with you to put your work on the website:
>
> CHUCK "DOC" COFFIN-"Tribute to Robert A. Heinlein", issue 2;
> "Starship Troopers Reviewed", issue 2
>
> ROSIE POSTELNEK--your issue 2 poems, "Dreams, I thought, Music"
>
> DEANNA HIGGINBOTHAM--your artwork: "No Excuses", "Lovely", "Equally
> Lovely", "Proof of Title", "Mama Maureen"
>
> STEVE BECK--I want carte blanche on your artwork, but would pretty
> much emphasize those that weren't done specifically for Bytor's or
> SIFI Rob's stories.
>
> JT & SIFI ROB--ditto the carte blanche on your poems, if you're okay
> with the general idea of putting them on the website then we can work
> out which ones you do or don't want published on the web.
>
> BETH, JAMES HUNT--likewise on the poems
>
> WJaKE--issue 4 article "A Visit to Butler, MO" by Paul Van Bloem &
> William J. Keaton. I'd really like to put this article up, but don't
> recall seeing Paul around for ages. WJaKe, do you have contact? Or can
> give solo permission? Or a rewrite to your own solo version?
>
> There's a lot more I'd like to mine from Galactic Citizen, but these
> are a start.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Deb (D.A. Houdek)
> http://www.dahoudek.com
> http://www.robertaheinlein.com
> http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22824
From: RPostelnek"
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:56:57 -0500
Subject: Heinlein book for non science fiction people
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Can anyone recommend a Heinlein book for a genre reading group that doesn't
particularly like science fiction? I'm leading a discussion group at the
library and I'd like to suggest a title. They would prefer that it not be
real long. If you can think of one by another author I'll gladly take those
suggestions too.
Rosie
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22825
From: Kristina Forsyth"
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 00:02:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Heinlein book for non science fiction people
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
What genre do they ordinarily read?
T
"RPostelnek" <rpostelnek@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:3f652a81.0@news.sff.net...
> Can anyone recommend a Heinlein book for a genre reading group that
doesn't
> particularly like science fiction? I'm leading a discussion group at the
> library and I'd like to suggest a title. They would prefer that it not be
> real long. If you can think of one by another author I'll gladly take
those
> suggestions too.
>
> Rosie
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22826
From: georule@civilwarstlouis.com
Date: 15 Sep 2003 04:04:19 GMT
Subject: Re: Heinlein Prize
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Gotta love that link to THS on the Heinlein Prize site. And the link back
from THS too. My particular favorite page is the "On Space Travel" one;
gets me fired up reading it every time.
Best. Geo
www.heinleinsociety.org
www.heinleinprize.com
www.robertaheinlein.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22827
From: David M. Silver"
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 00:19:39 -0700
Subject: Re: Heinlein book for non science fiction people
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
In article <3f65382b.0@news.sff.net>, "Kristina Forsyth" <kgf@sff.net>
wrote:
> What genre do they ordinarily read?
>
> T
>
> "RPostelnek" <rpostelnek@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:3f652a81.0@news.sff.net...
> > Can anyone recommend a Heinlein book for a genre reading group that
> doesn't
> > particularly like science fiction? I'm leading a discussion group at the
> > library and I'd like to suggest a title. They would prefer that it not be
> > real long. If you can think of one by another author I'll gladly take
> those
> > suggestions too.
> >
> > Rosie
> >
> >
>
>
What level of reading analysis, or "criticism," do they ordinarily
employ? Do they like literary allusions, references to other "great
works," references to history, or references to or critiques of laws,
religion, philosophy, sociology? Satires?
If yes to most of the above, give them Job: A Comedy of Justice.
If no, Double Star -- they'll find it mercifully short.
--
David M. Silver www.heinleinsociety.org
"The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!"
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA '29, Lt.(jg), USN, R'td, 1907-88
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22828
From: gunner"
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:54:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Heinlein book for non science fiction people
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"If yes to most of the above, give them Job: A Comedy of Justice."
------------------------------
that was my first thought too.
"gunner"
=========================
"David M. Silver" <ag.plusone@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:ag.plusone-050E57.00193915092003@wixer.greyware.com...
> In article <3f65382b.0@news.sff.net>, "Kristina Forsyth" <kgf@sff.net>
> wrote:
>
> > What genre do they ordinarily read?
> >
> > T
> >
> > "RPostelnek" <rpostelnek@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> > news:3f652a81.0@news.sff.net...
> > > Can anyone recommend a Heinlein book for a genre reading group that
> > doesn't
> > > particularly like science fiction? I'm leading a discussion group at
the
> > > library and I'd like to suggest a title. They would prefer that it
not be
> > > real long. If you can think of one by another author I'll gladly take
> > those
> > > suggestions too.
> > >
> > > Rosie
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> What level of reading analysis, or "criticism," do they ordinarily
> employ? Do they like literary allusions, references to other "great
> works," references to history, or references to or critiques of laws,
> religion, philosophy, sociology? Satires?
>
> If yes to most of the above, give them Job: A Comedy of Justice.
>
> If no, Double Star -- they'll find it mercifully short.
>
> --
> David M. Silver www.heinleinsociety.org
> "The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!"
> Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA '29, Lt.(jg), USN, R'td, 1907-88
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22829
From: David Wright"
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:20:13 -0400
Subject: Contribute to The Heinlein Society
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
From the Web Site of The Heinlein Society
http://heinleinsociety.org
Heinlein Prize Trust Makes Matching Funds Pledge
AUGUST 27, 2003-The trustees of the Robert A. and Virginia Heinlein Prize
Trust pledged that they will match contributions to the Heinlein Society for
the remainder of 2003 up to a total of $15,000.
Between August 27 and September 1 the Heinlein Society has raised a total
of $3,400, leaving more than $11,000 in the matching funds pledge.
We have until the end of December. Please help us gain the full benefit of
the Heinlein Prize Trust's generous offer.
Pay it Forward!
Contribute Now
--
David Wright
http://www.alltel.net/~dwrighsr/index.html
http://heinleinsociety.org
Help us prepare for the upcoming Centennial of the birthday of Robert A.
Heinlein
http://heinlein100.org
Anytime is a good time to join us in The Heinlein Society
http://heinleinsociety.org/membership.html
http://heinleinsociety.org/join.html
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22830
From: Bill Dauphin
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:43:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Heinlein book for non science fiction people
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On 9/14/03 10:56 PM, in article 3f652a81.0@news.sff.net, "RPostelnek"
<rpostelnek@prodigy.net> wrote:
> Can anyone recommend a Heinlein book for a genre reading group that doesn't
> particularly like science fiction? I'm leading a discussion group at the
> library and I'd like to suggest a title. They would prefer that it not be
> real long. If you can think of one by another author I'll gladly take those
> suggestions too.
>
> Rosie
>
>
The first thought that popped into my head was _Double Star_. I don't have
much analysis to back that up; just a gut feel. It *is* brief.
-JovBill
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22831
From: Bill Dauphin
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:54:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Heinlein book for non science fiction people
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On 9/15/03 3:19 AM, in article
ag.plusone-050E57.00193915092003@wixer.greyware.com, "David M. Silver"
<ag.plusone@verizon.net> wrote:
> What level of reading analysis, or "criticism," do they ordinarily
> employ? Do they like literary allusions, references to other "great
> works," references to history, or references to or critiques of laws,
> religion, philosophy, sociology? Satires?
>
> If yes to most of the above, give them Job: A Comedy of Justice.
I can't fault your logic and I personally love the book, but instinctively
I'd hate for _Job_ to be anyone's first Heinlein. It's so unlike most of his
other work, and if the group includes religious folks of a certain stripe,
_Job_ is sure to p!ss 'em off. Of course, it might be just their cup of
tea... But I'd want to be pretty sure of that before committing, and if
Rosie knew her group that well, she probably wouldn't need to ask for
advice, eh?
>
> If no, Double Star -- they'll find it mercifully short.
Just for the record, I had *not* read this when I posted my suggestion! ;^)
-JovBill
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22832
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:52:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Heinlein book for non science fiction people
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Bill: Double Star is a good pick for a first read (IMNSHO). It
is pure Heinlein and, yes it's brief. I too would keep away from
the more controversial later works.
Ed J
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:43:12 -0400, Bill Dauphin
<dauphinb@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>The first thought that popped into my head was _Double Star_. I don't have
>much analysis to back that up; just a gut feel. It *is* brief.
>
>-JovBill
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22833
From: RPostelnek"
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:22:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Heinlein book for non science fiction people
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Ed
Double Star was what I was thinking of.They like suspense, historical
fiction, They will try all sorts of things, but I'd be leary of Job. I'll
suggest Double Star.
Thanks for the suggestions
Rosie
"Ed Johnson" <eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote in message
news:942dmvcfbf7b76v1j9c7vsnsf8d0u3b3r7@4ax.com...
> Bill: Double Star is a good pick for a first read (IMNSHO). It
> is pure Heinlein and, yes it's brief. I too would keep away from
> the more controversial later works.
>
> Ed J
>
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:43:12 -0400, Bill Dauphin
> <dauphinb@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >The first thought that popped into my head was _Double Star_. I don't
have
> >much analysis to back that up; just a gut feel. It *is* brief.
> >
> >-JovBill
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22834
From: David M. Silver"
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:13:48 -0700
Subject: Re: Heinlein book for non science fiction people
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
In article <BB8BD787.8FE-dauphinb@ix.netcom.com>,
Bill Dauphin <dauphinb@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > If no, Double Star -- they'll find it mercifully short.
>
> Just for the record, I had *not* read this when I posted my suggestion! ;^)
;^) Nice to see we agree so much. Job is one heck of a curve ball to
throw at an unsuspecting group of readers unless they're the sort weaned
on Philip Wylie and other classic cynics, and delight in that sort of
mental exercise. I wouldn't think the average group of genre readers
would be all ready for it, either; hence my careful qualifications.
OTOH, I once suggested it (in fact gave my extra paperback copy to) a
reader of a certain fundamentalist religious type, who at least had been
taught to be tolerant of other viewpoints. She enjoyed it, thought it
hilarious in fact, but perhaps she thought it so because she knew what
to expect from me, well knowing my views on that other thing besides
politics you don't discuss in polite company.
--
David M. Silver www.heinleinsociety.org
"The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!"
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA '29, Lt.(jg), USN, R'td, 1907-88
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22835
From: Eli Hestermann
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 05:04:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Heinlein book for non science fiction people
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Let us know how many people say, "Hey, he stole this plot from the movie
_Dave_!". [g]
RPostelnek wrote:
>Ed
>Double Star was what I was thinking of.They like suspense, historical
>fiction, They will try all sorts of things, but I'd be leary of Job. I'll
>suggest Double Star.
>
> Thanks for the suggestions
>
> Rosie
>"Ed Johnson" <eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote in message
>news:942dmvcfbf7b76v1j9c7vsnsf8d0u3b3r7@4ax.com...
>
>
>>Bill: Double Star is a good pick for a first read (IMNSHO). It
>>is pure Heinlein and, yes it's brief. I too would keep away from
>>the more controversial later works.
>>
>>Ed J
>>
>>On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:43:12 -0400, Bill Dauphin
>><dauphinb@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>The first thought that popped into my head was _Double Star_. I don't
>>>
>>>
>have
>
>
>>>much analysis to back that up; just a gut feel. It *is* brief.
>>>
>>>-JovBill
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
--
Eli V. Hestermann
ehestermann@charter.net
"Vita brevis est, ars longa" - Seneca
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22836
From: Kevin Patrick Crowley
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:50:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Heinlein book for non science fiction people
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I would suggest Have Spacesuit Will Travel. Understandable plot,
Everything in it is still applicable to present day society and will not
offend softer sensibilities.
Doublestar requires a civics lesson on parlimentary governments to be
properly understood.
Kevin
Eli Hestermann wrote:
> Let us know how many people say, "Hey, he stole this plot from the movie
> _Dave_!". [g]
>
> RPostelnek wrote:
>
>> Ed
>> Double Star was what I was thinking of.They like suspense, historical
>> fiction, They will try all sorts of things, but I'd be leary of Job.
>> I'll
>> suggest Double Star.
>>
>> Thanks for the suggestions
>>
>> Rosie
>> "Ed Johnson" <eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote in message
>> news:942dmvcfbf7b76v1j9c7vsnsf8d0u3b3r7@4ax.com...
>>
>>
>>> Bill: Double Star is a good pick for a first read (IMNSHO). It
>>> is pure Heinlein and, yes it's brief. I too would keep away from
>>> the more controversial later works.
>>>
>>> Ed J
>>>
>>> On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:43:12 -0400, Bill Dauphin
>>> <dauphinb@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> The first thought that popped into my head was _Double Star_. I don't
>>>>
>>
>> have
>>
>>
>>>> much analysis to back that up; just a gut feel. It *is* brief.
>>>>
>>>> -JovBill
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22837
From: Bill Dauphin
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 15:54:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Heinlein book for non science fiction people
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On 9/16/03 2:50 PM, in article 3f675bfd.0@news.sff.net, "Kevin Patrick
Crowley" <kevin.crowley@crowleyenterprises.com> wrote:
> I would suggest Have Spacesuit Will Travel.
Thatıs another good suggestion. Truthfully, any of the juveniles would do
(IMHO, they're all perfectly acceptable for adult audiences), as would _The
Door Into Summer_.
> Doublestar requires a civics lesson on parlimentary governments to be
> properly understood.
Maybe... But for me, _Double Star_ *was* a civics lesson, and a relatively
painless one. I was fairly young when I first read it, and relatively
unfamiliar with the parliamentary system, yet I don't recall being confused.
It's always been one of my favorites.
-Bill
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22838
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:17:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Heinlein book for non science fiction people
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Caohoim....
Long time since we last saw you pixels! Welcome home cobber.
Next time bring your harp; the forum seems to be losing it's taste
for music these days.
Ed J
On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:50:55 -0500, Kevin Patrick Crowley
<kevin.crowley@crowleyenterprises.com> wrote:
>I would suggest Have Spacesuit Will Travel. Understandable plot,
>Everything in it is still applicable to present day society and will not
>offend softer sensibilities.
>Doublestar requires a civics lesson on parlimentary governments to be
>properly understood.
>
>Kevin
>
>Eli Hestermann wrote:
>
>> Let us know how many people say, "Hey, he stole this plot from the movie
>> _Dave_!". [g]
>>
>> RPostelnek wrote:
>>
>>> Ed
>>> Double Star was what I was thinking of.They like suspense, historical
>>> fiction, They will try all sorts of things, but I'd be leary of Job.
>>> I'll
>>> suggest Double Star.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the suggestions
>>>
>>> Rosie
>>> "Ed Johnson" <eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote in message
>>> news:942dmvcfbf7b76v1j9c7vsnsf8d0u3b3r7@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>> Bill: Double Star is a good pick for a first read (IMNSHO). It
>>>> is pure Heinlein and, yes it's brief. I too would keep away from
>>>> the more controversial later works.
>>>>
>>>> Ed J
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:43:12 -0400, Bill Dauphin
>>>> <dauphinb@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The first thought that popped into my head was _Double Star_. I don't
>>>>>
>>>
>>> have
>>>
>>>
>>>>> much analysis to back that up; just a gut feel. It *is* brief.
>>>>>
>>>>> -JovBill
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22839
From: William B. Dennis II"
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 01:12:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Heinlein book for non science fiction people
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Bill Dauphin" <dauphinb@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:BB8BD787.8FE-dauphinb@ix.netcom.com...
> On 9/15/03 3:19 AM, in article
> ag.plusone-050E57.00193915092003@wixer.greyware.com, "David M. Silver"
> <ag.plusone@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > What level of reading analysis, or "criticism," do they ordinarily
> > employ? Do they like literary allusions, references to other "great
> > works," references to history, or references to or critiques of laws,
> > religion, philosophy, sociology? Satires?
> >
> > If yes to most of the above, give them Job: A Comedy of Justice.
>
> I can't fault your logic and I personally love the book, but instinctively
> I'd hate for _Job_ to be anyone's first Heinlein. It's so unlike most of
his
> other work, and if the group includes religious folks of a certain stripe,
> _Job_ is sure to p!ss 'em off.
If they are the type of person to be pissed off on religious grounds,
perhaps it's better they do and move along. Heinlein won't be their cup of
tea anyway.
--
William B. Dennis II
freelance writing
http://billscontent.com/weblog.php
FAX: 1-206-830-9509
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22840
From: Kevin Patrick Crowley
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:00:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Heinlein book for non science fiction people
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Thanks Ed,
Don't know how much musicality I can provide lately.
The big harp is in pieces,repairing some structural flaws, and my little
harp is being used by the middle step-granddaughter. I could sing some
gregorian chants.
Kevin
Ed Johnson wrote:
> Caohoim....
> Long time since we last saw you pixels! Welcome home cobber.
> Next time bring your harp; the forum seems to be losing it's taste
> for music these days.
>
> Ed J
>
> On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:50:55 -0500, Kevin Patrick Crowley
> <kevin.crowley@crowleyenterprises.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I would suggest Have Spacesuit Will Travel. Understandable plot,
>>Everything in it is still applicable to present day society and will not
>>offend softer sensibilities.
>>Doublestar requires a civics lesson on parlimentary governments to be
>>properly understood.
>>
>>Kevin
>>
>>Eli Hestermann wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Let us know how many people say, "Hey, he stole this plot from the movie
>>>_Dave_!". [g]
>>>
>>>RPostelnek wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Ed
>>>>Double Star was what I was thinking of.They like suspense, historical
>>>>fiction, They will try all sorts of things, but I'd be leary of Job.
>>>>I'll
>>>>suggest Double Star.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the suggestions
>>>>
>>>> Rosie
>>>>"Ed Johnson" <eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote in message
>>>>news:942dmvcfbf7b76v1j9c7vsnsf8d0u3b3r7@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Bill: Double Star is a good pick for a first read (IMNSHO). It
>>>>>is pure Heinlein and, yes it's brief. I too would keep away from
>>>>>the more controversial later works.
>>>>>
>>>>>Ed J
>>>>>
>>>>>On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:43:12 -0400, Bill Dauphin
>>>>><dauphinb@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>The first thought that popped into my head was _Double Star_. I don't
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>have
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>much analysis to back that up; just a gut feel. It *is* brief.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>-JovBill
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22841
From: Kevin Patrick Crowley
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:33:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Heinlein book for non science fiction people
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
But!!! If the intent is to get them to challenge what they believe:
please note that I do not say overturn or change, there is a difference:
then the more effective way to do it is to,metaphorically, sneak up
gently on the preconception and not, metaphorically, jump out of the
woods at them screaming. Almost any person will act to protect if they
feel they are being actively harmed or threatened.
Kevin
William B. Dennis II wrote:
> "Bill Dauphin" <dauphinb@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:BB8BD787.8FE-dauphinb@ix.netcom.com...
>
>>On 9/15/03 3:19 AM, in article
>>ag.plusone-050E57.00193915092003@wixer.greyware.com, "David M. Silver"
>><ag.plusone@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>What level of reading analysis, or "criticism," do they ordinarily
>>>employ? Do they like literary allusions, references to other "great
>>>works," references to history, or references to or critiques of laws,
>>>religion, philosophy, sociology? Satires?
>>>
>>>If yes to most of the above, give them Job: A Comedy of Justice.
>>
>>I can't fault your logic and I personally love the book, but instinctively
>>I'd hate for _Job_ to be anyone's first Heinlein. It's so unlike most of
>
> his
>
>>other work, and if the group includes religious folks of a certain stripe,
>>_Job_ is sure to p!ss 'em off.
>
>
> If they are the type of person to be pissed off on religious grounds,
> perhaps it's better they do and move along. Heinlein won't be their cup of
> tea anyway.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22842
From: Kevin Patrick Crowley
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:30:02 -0500
Subject: Doesn't anyone sneak out during lunch?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I seem to have wandered into the "not during work" Heinlein Forum.
Can someone tell me where the 24/7 version is hidden?
I seem to remember there being in one. Or was that a Twilight Zone
episode with Burgess Meredith? Or worse? William Shatner? Oh the
humanity of it all!!!!
Kevin
Caihaoim
Feeling melodramatic while doing homework.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22843
From: Kevin Patrick Crowley
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:35:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Doesn't anyone sneak out during lunch?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I am Burgess Meredith and I have broken my glasses.
Kevin
Kevin Patrick Crowley wrote:
> I seem to have wandered into the "not during work" Heinlein Forum.
> Can someone tell me where the 24/7 version is hidden?
> I seem to remember there being in one. Or was that a Twilight Zone
> episode with Burgess Meredith? Or worse? William Shatner? Oh the
> humanity of it all!!!!
>
> Kevin
> Caihaoim
> Feeling melodramatic while doing homework.
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22844
From: Bill Dauphin
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 18:12:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Heinlein book for non science fiction people
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On 9/17/03 2:12 AM, in article 3f67fb56.0@news.sff.net, "William B. Dennis
II" <bill@billscontent.com> wrote:
> If they are the type of person to be pissed off on religious grounds,
> perhaps it's better they do and move along. Heinlein won't be their cup of
> tea anyway.
C'est possible... But I suspect there are a goodly number of folks who might
well enjoy (or at least not be offended by) the rest of RAH's ouevre but
would nevertheless be put off by _Job_. It directly addresses the nature of
God in a manner that could easily be interpreted as blasphemous by some
religious folks (even some who are not necessarily wild-eyed fundamentalist
fanatics). I can imagine some of these people enjoying virtually everything
else RAH wrote, even _Stranger_ and the later more <ahem> *adult*-themed
books (it's not safe to assume that all religious people are also prudes!).
Plus which, the point Kevin made is well taken: If you can get folks to like
and respect RAH first, they might have more willingness to listen to, and
even accept, the ideas in the more challenging works.
-JovBill
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22845
From: JT
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:01:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Doesn't anyone sneak out during lunch?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:35:34 -0500, Kevin Patrick Crowley
<kevin.crowley@crowleyenterprises.com> wrote:
>I am Burgess Meredith and I have broken my glasses.
That was definitely one of the best pieces of TV ever. Of course, I
used to work in a library.... <G>
Nice to see you again, Kevin. What, no webpage to go with your
personal email? <EG>
JT
(w w w . t i l d e n s . n e t)
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22846
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:50:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Heinlein book for non science fiction people
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Kevin: God, to think of how long it's been since I last heard and
good Gregorian chanting! <g,d & r>.
Ed J
On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:00:32 -0500, Kevin Patrick Crowley
<kevin.crowley@crowleyenterprises.com> wrote:
>Thanks Ed,
> Don't know how much musicality I can provide lately.
>The big harp is in pieces,repairing some structural flaws, and my little
>harp is being used by the middle step-granddaughter. I could sing some
>gregorian chants.
>
>Kevin
>
>
>Ed Johnson wrote:
>> Caohoim....
>> Long time since we last saw you pixels! Welcome home cobber.
>> Next time bring your harp; the forum seems to be losing it's taste
>> for music these days.
>>
>> Ed J
>>
>> On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:50:55 -0500, Kevin Patrick Crowley
>> <kevin.crowley@crowleyenterprises.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I would suggest Have Spacesuit Will Travel. Understandable plot,
>>>Everything in it is still applicable to present day society and will not
>>>offend softer sensibilities.
>>>Doublestar requires a civics lesson on parlimentary governments to be
>>>properly understood.
>>>
>>>Kevin
>>>
>>>Eli Hestermann wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Let us know how many people say, "Hey, he stole this plot from the movie
>>>>_Dave_!". [g]
>>>>
>>>>RPostelnek wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Ed
>>>>>Double Star was what I was thinking of.They like suspense, historical
>>>>>fiction, They will try all sorts of things, but I'd be leary of Job.
>>>>>I'll
>>>>>suggest Double Star.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the suggestions
>>>>>
>>>>> Rosie
>>>>>"Ed Johnson" <eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote in message
>>>>>news:942dmvcfbf7b76v1j9c7vsnsf8d0u3b3r7@4ax.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Bill: Double Star is a good pick for a first read (IMNSHO). It
>>>>>>is pure Heinlein and, yes it's brief. I too would keep away from
>>>>>>the more controversial later works.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ed J
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:43:12 -0400, Bill Dauphin
>>>>>><dauphinb@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The first thought that popped into my head was _Double Star_. I don't
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>have
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>much analysis to back that up; just a gut feel. It *is* brief.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>-JovBill
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22847
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 01:19:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Heinlein book for non science fiction people
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Is it possible to get "If This Goes On..." in book form? I believe it
contains sufficient literary references, etc. to keep some critical readers
happy, it is short and not TOO sf-techno-geeky, and I believe it is very
representative of Heinlein.
Just my opinion.
WJaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22848
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 01:23:50 -0400
Subject: Squalls out on the Gulf Stream...
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
There's a big storm coming soon..."
Jimmy Buffett, "Trying to Reason with Hurricane Season"
Never thought I'd be dealing with this up here. I'll drop you folks a note
when I get back online after the lovely Isabel visits the East Coast. I
expect to go to work on Thursday and not come home until the storm has
passed.
JT, I hope you have the Tilden House secured, you are close enough to feel
some wrath. If Les is lurking, I hope your parents are staying safe in
Virginia Beach, they will feel some serious hurricane winds.
WJaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22849
From: Filksinger"
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 00:57:27 -0700
Subject: Re: Heinlein book for non science fiction people
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Eli Hestermann wrote:
> Let us know how many people say, "Hey, he stole this plot from the
> movie _Dave_!". [g]
No, no. It wasn't Dave, it was "Moon Over Parador".:)
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22850
From: David Wright"
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 06:05:02 -0400
Subject: Heinlein Readers Group Meeting - Topic "Heinlein's Heroines
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
The Heinlein Readers Group will have a meeting this evening (9-18-2003) at
9:00 P.M. EDT using AOL Instant Messaging (AIM)
The topic will be "Heinlein's Heroines".
The entire pre-discussion thread from alt.fan.heinlein is available at
http://heinleinsociety.org/Archives/ReadersGrp/AIM_09-18-2003.html
Information on how to obtain and use the AIM program for the chat can be
found at http://heinleinsociety.org/Archives/ReadersGrp/index.html#info (you
may have to scroll up a bit to get to the beginning of the message).
We look forward to seeing you there.
--
David Wright
http://www.alltel.net/~dwrighsr/index.html
http://heinleinsociety.org
Help us prepare for the upcoming Centennial of the birthday of Robert A.
Heinlein
http://heinlein100.org
Anytime is a good time to join us in The Heinlein Society
http://heinleinsociety.org/membership.html
http://heinleinsociety.org/join.html
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22851
From: fader555@aol.com (Fader)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:40:15 GMT
Subject: A Wesley we might like ??
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
So since we didn't really like the last person with this name ( & we
are not alone since all his lines were cut from the movie & unless
you've got widescreen TV/DVD? you're not going to see him in the home
release<g>)
I kinda like this one tho, saw him on Bill Maher last week, & he
sounds kinda libertarian. So wadda all think. & who should be his
running mate? I've got a wild idea, but I'll save it for now.
Fader
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22852
From: fader555@aol.com (Fader)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:25:59 GMT
Subject: Terrorism ??
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I find that I'm feeling somwhat ambivelent these days, on this
subject. I wonder if we really need to worry about this as much as the
government seems to.
I have somewhat strange ideas about religion, I really feel that a
fully evolved, intelligent, sentient species will not need it. (a
belief in the divine/spiritual, OTOH,IMHO is I think a needed
component)
I have long thought that most religion is mostly a dividing factor,
much more than the all love one another that most, at least nominally
espouse. I have also thought that what is really needed is a
ethical/moral code that doesn't have some religious bias as it's
foundation, but really just looks at rightness/wrongness.
Those are just the bare bones of some of what I'm thinking (which on
some days is all I've got <g>) How this relates to the topic is as
follows:
I think that as we evolve towards a "no religion" society/racial state
the more repressive/fundamental religions will be the first to go.
Flexibility is somewhat the key here, those that are less able to
adapt have a much lesser survivability factor. (as in any evolutionary
scenario) Islam seems to be one of the less able to do this of the
western(as oppossed to taoism, hindi, buddhist) religions, & afaik,
most of the terrorist are fundamentalists of even that religion. It
seems to be no more than the flailings of a dying religion/culture. If
all this is so then the problem will eventually take care of itself,
(all things must pass) & while we must protect ourselves in the
meantime, I think that we shouldn't be overly concerned. (a really
long view is called for here<g>, something the government/politicians
are not known for)
Two final thoughts, (only two, really, Fader, how concise) these
terrorist don't worry me nearly as much as the ones that will be
coming from some of the more christian religions start to go on their
downhill slide (again, this too shall pass) or fix the fact that I'm
much more terrified of Mr Ashcroft than of any terrorist.
Opinions, comments, Bloodlettin...I mean discussion.
Fader
( now at higher speeds....flaws are harder to fix)
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22853
From: Kevin Patrick Crowley
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 08:06:18 -0500
Subject: Re: Doesn't anyone sneak out during lunch?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
My ISP took a huge hit with the last wave of viruses and my site, the
actual files, got wiped. Since I had been planning to convert to zope I
told them not to bother with reloading the old site. I was promptly
thanked and given several months free service for not having yet another
site to reload. Unfortunanetly, I haven't taken proper advantage of it
and have yet to set up the site from home.
Kevin
JT wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:35:34 -0500, Kevin Patrick Crowley
> <kevin.crowley@crowleyenterprises.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I am Burgess Meredith and I have broken my glasses.
>
>
> That was definitely one of the best pieces of TV ever. Of course, I
> used to work in a library.... <G>
>
> Nice to see you again, Kevin. What, no webpage to go with your
> personal email? <EG>
>
> JT
> (w w w . t i l d e n s . n e t)
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22854
From: Kevin Patrick Crowley
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 08:29:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Terrorism ??
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Interspersed
Fader wrote:
> I find that I'm feeling somwhat ambivelent these days, on this
> subject. I wonder if we really need to worry about this as much as the
> government seems to.
>
> I have somewhat strange ideas about religion, I really feel that a
> fully evolved, intelligent, sentient species will not need it. (a
> belief in the divine/spiritual, OTOH,IMHO is I think a needed
> component)
>
> I have long thought that most religion is mostly a dividing factor,
> much more than the all love one another that most, at least nominally
> espouse. I have also thought that what is really needed is a
> ethical/moral code that doesn't have some religious bias as it's
> foundation, but really just looks at rightness/wrongness.
>
Without a theological framework in which to construct it humans can not
make any ethical/moral code that does not equate to ME SURVIVE. Any
attempt to create an ethical/moral code that does not take into account
a higher moral authority will only result in a code that is either
wholly darwinian or a COPY, with the serial #'s filed off, of other
ethical/moral codes that are derived from religous thought.
> Those are just the bare bones of some of what I'm thinking (which on
> some days is all I've got <g>) How this relates to the topic is as
> follows:
>
> I think that as we evolve towards a "no religion" society/racial state
> the more repressive/fundamental religions will be the first to go.
> Flexibility is somewhat the key here, those that are less able to
> adapt have a much lesser survivability factor. (as in any evolutionary
> scenario) Islam seems to be one of the less able to do this of the
> western(as oppossed to taoism, hindi, buddhist) religions, & afaik,
> most of the terrorist are fundamentalists of even that religion. It
> seems to be no more than the flailings of a dying religion/culture. If
> all this is so then the problem will eventually take care of itself,
> (all things must pass) & while we must protect ourselves in the
> meantime, I think that we shouldn't be overly concerned. (a really
> long view is called for here<g>, something the government/politicians
> are not known for)
>
> Two final thoughts, (only two, really, Fader, how concise) these
> terrorist don't worry me nearly as much as the ones that will be
> coming from some of the more christian religions start to go on their
> downhill slide (again, this too shall pass) or fix the fact that I'm
> much more terrified of Mr Ashcroft than of any terrorist.
Worldwide deaths at the hands of terrorists is well in excess of 10,000
over the past decade. How many have died at the hands of Mr. Ashcroft?
C'mon Fader I expected better reasoning from you. What reasonable
evidence could you cite that would show you or any non-terrorist group
of us is in greater danger from Ashcroft than a terrorist? I keep tabs
on many of the sites that hate Ashcroft and always the United States and
I have not seen yet one instance in which your premise would not fall
readily before Mister Occam and his barber.
>
> Opinions, comments, Bloodlettin...I mean discussion.
>
> Fader
> ( now at higher speeds....flaws are harder to fix)
Nice to see you again.
Kevin
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22855
From: James R. Cunningham"
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 08:29:45 -0700
Subject: Re: Heinlein book for non science fiction people
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
As an aside, Ginny mentioned once that she didn't think that "Moon Over
Parador" was a takeoff on 'Double Star.
JimC
Filksinger wrote:
>
> Eli Hestermann wrote:
> > Let us know how many people say, "Hey, he stole this plot from the
> > movie _Dave_!". [g]
>
> No, no. It wasn't Dave, it was "Moon Over Parador".:)
>
> --
> Filksinger
> AKA David Nasset, Sr.
> Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22856
From: David Wright"
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:13:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Heinlein book for non science fiction people
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"James R. Cunningham" <jrccea@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3F69CF69.A53CE265@bellsouth.net...
> As an aside, Ginny mentioned once that she didn't think that "Moon Over
> Parador" was a takeoff on 'Double Star.
> JimC
>
> Filksinger wrote:
> >
> > Eli Hestermann wrote:
> > > Let us know how many people say, "Hey, he stole this plot from the
> > > movie _Dave_!". [g]
> >
> > No, no. It wasn't Dave, it was "Moon Over Parador".:)
> >
It seems to me that the basic concept goes back at least to Twain's 'Prince
and the Pauper'.
--
David Wright
Join us at the next Heinlein Readers Group
See: http://heinleinsociety.org/readersgroup/AIM_09-18-2003.html
for alt.fan.heinlein pre-chat discussions
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22857
From: JT
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:24:52 -0400
Subject: Re: "Squalls out on the Gulf Stream...
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 01:23:50 -0400, "William J. Keaton"
<wjake@prodigy.net> wrote:
>JT, I hope you have the Tilden House secured, you are close enough to feel
>some wrath. If Les is lurking, I hope your parents are staying safe in
>Virginia Beach, they will feel some serious hurricane winds.
>
My biggest concern is actually how Daniel will take it. He's not too
keen on howling winds. Was surprised to find out they called off work
today (I'm not expecting tomorrow, but I was surprised about today)
--didn't check before I left but I knew something was up when I got a
great parking spot at 6:45. ;) Got home before the rest of the family
was up and really surprised Christine.
But, yes, the lawn stuff is all packed away. I'm not too worried
about the house in general, and we have all the basic supplies if we
lose power for a while.
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22858
From: JT
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:32:05 -0400
Subject: Re: A Wesley we might like ??
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:40:15 GMT, fader555@aol.com (Fader) wrote:
>So since we didn't really like the last person with this name ( & we
>are not alone since all his lines were cut from the movie & unless
>you've got widescreen TV/DVD? you're not going to see him in the home
>release<g>)
>
>I kinda like this one tho, saw him on Bill Maher last week, & he
>sounds kinda libertarian. So wadda all think. & who should be his
>running mate? I've got a wild idea, but I'll save it for now.
>
>Fader
I'm assuming you're talking about Crusher in ST:Nemesis and Clark the
Democrat?
Just making sure.... <EG>
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22859
From: Kevin Patrick Crowley
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:06:09 -0500
Subject: Re: "Squalls out on the Gulf Stream...
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Another piece of evidence for "the not while at work Heinlein Forum"
Theory.
Kevin
JT wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 01:23:50 -0400, "William J. Keaton"
> <wjake@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>
>>JT, I hope you have the Tilden House secured, you are close enough to feel
>>some wrath. If Les is lurking, I hope your parents are staying safe in
>>Virginia Beach, they will feel some serious hurricane winds.
>>
>
>
> My biggest concern is actually how Daniel will take it. He's not too
> keen on howling winds. Was surprised to find out they called off work
> today (I'm not expecting tomorrow, but I was surprised about today)
> --didn't check before I left but I knew something was up when I got a
> great parking spot at 6:45. ;) Got home before the rest of the family
> was up and really surprised Christine.
>
> But, yes, the lawn stuff is all packed away. I'm not too worried
> about the house in general, and we have all the basic supplies if we
> lose power for a while.
>
> JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22860
From: JT
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 18:23:06 -0400
Subject: Re: "Squalls out on the Gulf Stream...
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:06:09 -0500, Kevin Patrick Crowley
<kevin.crowley@crowleyenterprises.com> wrote:
>Another piece of evidence for "the not while at work Heinlein Forum"
>Theory.
>
The biggest reason for me is that I can only get WebNews at work, and
I don't want the effort of 'catching up' at home if I read/post at
work.
Plus, traffic here is generally low enough most days that a quick
check in the evening is enough. Although Fader's recent religion
comments may inspire a bit more commentary.... <G>
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22861
From: David Wright"
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 20:44:16 -0400
Subject: Apparent variation on a virus
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
There is a possible virus which appears to be very prolific. I have received
13 of these today.
They appear as a "September 2003 Cumulative Patch" update from Microsoft.com
and contains a very real looking page purporting to be from microsoft and
there is a ".exe" attachment. Each of these that came in had the same
visible page with an attachment with with the identical message, but with
different names on the .exe file, but had the same size (106)kb.
Sometimes the From name was recognizably Microsoft, but other times it was
garbaged up. I did *not* open or execute any of these and I do not recommend
that anyone do so. As far as I know, Microsoft never sends out e-mails with
patches but relies on their web site for all updates.
This appears to be a variant of the Swen virus. but my Norton did *not*
recognize it as a virus, however. It appears to be either a brand new one on
the same lines or an unrecognized variant of the old one.
David Wright
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22862
From: JT
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 21:17:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Apparent variation on a virus
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 20:44:16 -0400, "David Wright"
<dwrighsr@alltel.net> wrote:
>There is a possible virus which appears to be very prolific. I have received
>13 of these today.
>
Yes, it's severely impacting mail systems including SFF Net's. You
are correct in that MicroSoft would never email a patch out. The only
reliable place to get a MS patch is from MicroSoft's "Windows Update"
website (or your friendly work network admin ;)
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22863
From: John Paul Vrolyk
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 21:22:41 -0700
Subject: Re: "Squalls out on the Gulf Stream...
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"William J. Keaton" wrote:
> If Les is lurking, I hope your parents are staying safe in
> Virginia Beach, they will feel some serious hurricane winds.
Les isn't, but I am. :-)
As of about 9:30pm Eastern time, they'd seen some high winds,
but nothing damaging or dangerous. Their power'd been off
for several hours already, though.
--
John Paul Vrolyk
jp@vrolyk.org
------------------------------------------------------------
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