SFF Net Newsgroup Archive
sff.discuss.heinlein-forumIndex of Articles for this Newsgroup |
http://www.sff.net/
Archive of: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Archive desc: The Internet home for the Heinlein Forum
Archived by: webnews@sff.net
Archive date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 12:14:21
============================================================
Article 24195
From: Deb@sff.net (D.A. Houdek)
Date: 4 Dec 2004 00:33:07 GMT
Subject: Internet Love
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
The Internet loves us. It's all around us, surrounding us, embracing us,
becoming one with us...
Have any of you played with wireless networking and Internet hotspots?
It's freakin' amazing! Home wireless networking was a wonderful revelation
(Geo kind of pushed it onto me and I fell in love with it), but once you
expand into wireless out in the world it becomes simply incredible. Traveling,
moving, getting into a new place with no phone or cable, I still had Internet--wireless
networks all over the place just waiting to be tapped into. Internet all
over. Starbucks (most, if not all) are hotspots, plus a growing number of
McDonalds. Then I was at the Minneapolis airport today--dull hours cut off
from the world to kill before the flight, then I plugged in my network card
and, viola!, wireless Internet (very reasonably priced). It's like discovering
joy. Suddenly the wait wasn't a wait at all, just a different place to sit,
but I still had the whole world right there with me (and a nice cup of Starbucks
which is its own kind of joy). Little motels in Nowhere, Iowa with wireless
connections. And just swarms of people who don't know how to encrypt their
networks ;-) . I can't help but picture us someday pulling Internet out
of the air minus the computers...
Deb
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24196
From: JT
Date: Sat, 04 Dec 2004 08:50:18 -0500
Subject: Re: Internet Love
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On 4 Dec 2004 00:33:07 GMT, Deb@sff.net (D.A. Houdek) wrote:
>The Internet loves us. It's all around us, surrounding us, embracing us,
>becoming one with us...
>
So now you're the High Priestess of RF? ;)
> Have any of you played with wireless networking and Internet hotspots?
Yes on the home front, no for hotspots. I have not had a reason to
use my laptop outside of the house. But I'm on my second (upgraded)
network at home--my first router died so I replaced it with an
integrated wireless g router.
> And just swarms of people who don't know how to encrypt their
>networks ;-) .
Ain't this the truth. And even worse, WEP is apparently a joke--
although I personally haven't looked for the tools to crack it, they
are supposedly all over. I have no personal experience for WPA to
know if it's truly an improvement.
Anyhew, glad you're enjoying the wireless world--anything that keeps
you posting more regularly is a good thing. ;)
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24197
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Sat, 04 Dec 2004 18:03:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Internet Love - STOOGE37.WAV (0/1)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT: `Tis the season... to bring in HF cobbers who are lurking or
may have drifted away??? Doesn't that sound like a charitable thing
to do this time of the year? If you could think of something that
goes beyond a Roll Call, it would help the process. To quote Curly
(of the Three Stooges) I'm trying to think, but nothing happens.
<g>
The Internet _Is_ all around us, we should us it to bring in
those cobbers who have strayed from the flock.
All: Shall we begin a Roll Call?
Ed J
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24198
From: postmaster@sff.net
Date: 25 Nov 2004 18:14:24 GMT
Subject: No articles presently in newsgroup.
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
This newsgroup has no articles yet; however, if
you were to post something, it would.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24199
From: Filksinger
Date: Sat, 04 Dec 2004 21:08:11 -0800
Subject: Re: Internet Love
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT wrote:
<snip>
> Ain't this the truth. And even worse, WEP is apparently a joke--
> although I personally haven't looked for the tools to crack it, they
> are supposedly all over. I have no personal experience for WPA to
> know if it's truly an improvement.
To crack WEP typically takes about 10 million packets, or a couple weeks
on a typical four-person business LAN. The level of encryption doesn't
matter: 40, 64, or 128-bit all have the same weakness.
So, change your passwords every two weeks on every machine, and you are
pretty safe. With a small home LAN, once every other month or so should
do it, unless it is heavily used.
WPA is a different story entirely. A much more secure design, WPA has no
known ways to crack the encryption or improperly log onto the network
other than the direct methods, like break in and steal the passwords. It
was designed by security experts, and is much better constructed.
It has, so far, only one significant weakness; an attacker can cause a
DOS attack (denial of service, for you non-techies reading this, which
makes the network useless) by simply trying to log on twice, quickly,
once every minute. Any wireless network can be messed with by using any
number of methods, but all of them require that you send a signal
continuously. This makes them easier to trace down.
So, the network can't be broken into using WPA, so far, but it can be
broken easier, if someone wants to break it. For most people this
probably isn't a problem, until someone decides to write a virus that
makes infected machines screw with neighboring WPA networks.
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24200
From: JT
Date: Sun, 05 Dec 2004 11:36:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Internet Love - STOOGE37.WAV (0/1)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 18:03:36 -0500, Ed Johnson
<eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote:
To quote Curly
>(of the Three Stooges) I'm trying to think, but nothing happens.
><g>
I'm not sure that it's great protocol to attach files to your post,
Ed, but it was funny. ;)
> The Internet _Is_ all around us, we should us it to bring in
>those cobbers who have strayed from the flock.
>
>All: Shall we begin a Roll Call?
>
You don't ask to begin it, you just start! :)
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24201
From: JT
Date: Sun, 05 Dec 2004 11:50:27 -0500
Subject: Holiday Roll Call
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
OK, so if you've been lurking for a while, post now so that we can
thank you for being a part of the HF, and "convert" you into a posting
member.
Those of you that have been here for a bit, or just popped back in,
please post a current/updated Roll Call to fill us in. Say as much or
as little as you'd like.
*************************************************************************
John Tilden (aka JT or JusTin)
Age: 35
married to Christine, two boys: Danny & Davey
sadly enough, I realized that my 9/03 bio is still basically relevant
with nothing new:
I'm a first-line supervisor for a small R&D computer lab helping to
service application development at a large federal agency. Past
experience includes Email Administrator, Systems Analyst, Claims Rep,
Prodigy Science Fiction BB Leader, Day Laborer, Copy
Editor/Proofreader, Library Page.
First logged on HF: 5/92 (Prodigy) via a Mac SE & 2600 bps modem.
First Heinlein: Farmer in the Sky
Favorite Heinlein: The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. I admit I haven't
reread many of them yet; still haven't read _Tramp Royale_ although I
own it.
Political Leanings: registered Libertarian. I'm disgusted with them,
too, at the moment, but they still more accurately represent my
opinions than Repubs or Demos.
Religious Leanings: currently affiliated with the Roman Catholic
church. Raised Protestant. Basically Christian, but with some
Eastern philosophy thrown in.
What I do for fun besides read SF: collect comic books, mostly DC.
(Still haven't catalogued them, Fader!)
Still trying to get our old home videos into digital format--bought a
miniDV camcorder last year, love it, but haven't gotten the oldest VHS
stuff to DVD yet. I won't send the tapes out by mail, don't seem to
have the time to do it myself, and most of the local shops seem to
want $20 a tape for the transfer. Sigh--I've got about 9 tapes to
do.....
What I wish I would do: get off my butt and find a dojo. I've
fiddled with Shotokan Karate, Aikido, and Chin Na to some extent, but
I can only call myself a serious beginner at best. Right now I would
have problems getting to any hall two or three times a week. It's
been way too long since I've heard a "Doc" story.
See a current picture of the family at:
w w w . tildens. n e t /TildenChristmasCard2004.jpg (collapse the
spaces for the URL).
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24202
From: Mitch Wagner"
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 21:19:44 +0000
Subject: Re: Holiday Roll Call
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Mitch Wagner
Age: 42
Married to Julie Brown, no kids, one cat who holds me in disdain.
I realize that having only ONE cat makes my membership in Heinlein
fandom suspect. We used to have two. When we had Spike put to sleep, and
Sasha was left alone, she really started to thrive, so we figure it's
better for her if she be the only cat.
I'm a journalist covering the Internet and computers. I edit Security
Pipeline <http://www.securitypipeline.com> and I'm news editor of the
TechWeb Pipelines <http://www.techweb.com/pipelines>.
First Heinlein: "Red Planet." That was also the first novel I ever read.
The first book I ever read was a biography of Helen Keller.
Favorite Heinlein: "Time Enough for Love," "Citizen of the Galaxy," "If
This Goes On-- " "Methuselah's Children," "Starman Jones," "Glory Road,"
"Have Space Suit, Will Travel," "Life-Line," "Ordeal in Space," and "The
Star Beast."
I recently re-read "The Roads Must Roll," and I enjoyed it as an
artifact of cultural anthropology, rather than fiction. It was badly
dated, but I enjoyed seeing Heinlein's attitudes ca. 1940, and how that
reflected the attitudes of American society in general, towards a range
of subjects from trade unions to Australians.
Likewise, I read "Logic of Empire" after reading "For Us, The Living,"
and though, "My God, this novelette is fundamentally socialist!"
I have a fond spot for "The Door Into Summer," not necessarily as one of
my favorite works per se but because I loaned it to my wife while we
were dating, and it probably played a small, indirect role in our
getting married.
I liked "Starship Troopers" just fine, although I find the politics the
least interesting thing about it. I liked the movie just fine, too,
although I kind of wish someone would actually make a movie based on the
Heinlein novel of the same name.
Political leanings: I generally tell people I'm a liberal. That's as
good a label as any. Lately, I've been thinking is that what we're
seeing within U.S. and worldwide is conflict between the forces of
rationality on the one hand, and superstition and religious
fundamentalism on the other. This conflict makes the old distinction of
liberalism vs. conservatism seem relatively unimportant. I can pretty
much get along with ANYONE who seems to be actually THINKING, as opposed
to taking dictation from God. (I get along fine with religious people,
so long as they're not the kind who think God is sending them e-mail
telling them what to do.)
Religious: Raised Jewish, culturally Jewish. Agnostic leaning toward
atheist. The headlines are making me pretty hostile toward religion
nowadays.
Currently living through a home remodel. I remember we once had a
kitchen....
Mitch Wagner
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24203
From: David Wright Sr."
Date: 5 Dec 2004 23:41:38 GMT
Subject: Re: Holiday Roll Call
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote in
news:s8e6r01pg26r84o79a0c5m3hti6ejetpon@4ax.com:
> ** John Tilden (aka JT or JusTin)
> Age: 35
> married to Christine, two boys: Danny & Davey
** David Wright Sr.
Age 64
Married to Jennelou Earnhardt for 38 years
Two Sons: David Jr. 37 and John 36. David Jr. Lives and works in Athens, Ga
at the University of Georgia. John is married and is Assistant Professor of
Communications and Theater at the University of Wisconsin in Manitowac, WI.
I am a Programmer/Systems Analyst/Network Engineer for a local district
office of the Georgia State Department of Public Health. I am hoping to
retire at the end of next year. I have been in the computer field since
1968.
I can't recall when I started on HF. I mostly lurk here with most of my
postings are done on alt.fan.heinlein.
First Heinlein: I'm not sure. It was either _Between Planets_ or _Starman
Jones_, sometime in the fall of 1953.
Favorite Heinlein: Whichever one I happen to be reading. On the whole, my
favorites are the 'juvies', but _The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress_, and the
whole Future History Series are right up there too. IMHO, TANSTAABH (There
Ain't No Such Thing as a Bad Heinlein)[1]
Political Leanings: I voted Republican although I do have strong
Libertarian leanings.
Religious Leanings: I am a tonsured(ordained) Reader in the Russian
Orthodox Church Abroad (ROCA) aka Russian Orthodox Church Outside Of Russia
(ROCOR)
What I do for fun besides read SF: Whatever my latest interest in computing
is. Currently, I am working on learning all about adware/spyware and how to
protect and clean computers from those infestations. I am thinking about
doing that part-time after I retire.
Family Photos are found at: http://jennelou.tripod.com/Photos/index.html
(BTW JT, that's a nice looking family. Reminds me of mine when they were at
that age).
--
David Wright
If you haven't joined the Society, Why Not?
http://heinleinsociety.org/join.html
Keep Up with the Latest
http://www.heinleinsociety.org/updates.html
Benefit The Heinlein Society by ordering books thru
http://home.alltel.net/dwrighsr/heinlein-amazon.htm
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24204
From: JT
Date: Sun, 05 Dec 2004 18:49:28 -0500
Subject: Holiday Roll Call--followups
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On 5 Dec 2004 23:41:38 GMT, "David Wright Sr." <dwrightsr@alltel.net>
wrote:
>Religious Leanings: I am a tonsured(ordained) Reader in the Russian
>Orthodox Church Abroad (ROCA) aka Russian Orthodox Church Outside Of Russia
>(ROCOR)
>
Interesting. How near to Priest/Minister/Leader is the position of
Reader? Is it similar to the R.C. Deacon?
This is the really fun part of Roll Calls--finding out stuff you'd
never think to investigate on your own. Sort of like browsing the
library stacks and pulling out books at random.
Or for the kids out there, using a random URL generator for the web.
;)
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24205
From: David Wright Sr."
Date: 5 Dec 2004 23:58:30 GMT
Subject: Re: Holiday Roll Call
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"David Wright Sr." <dwrightsr@alltel.net> wrote in
news:Xns95B6BE29E225Dnokvamli@208.14.208.52:
> Favorite Heinlein: Whichever one I happen to be reading. On the whole,
> my favorites are the 'juvies', but _The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress_, and
> the whole Future History Series are right up there too. IMHO,
> TANSTAABH (There Ain't No Such Thing as a Bad Heinlein)[1]
>
>
I forgot to add:
Note 1: I believe that I first read _The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress_
somewhere around 1970. I understood the meaning of TANSTAAFL, but because
I had just graduated with a computer degree and had had not only a German
major as an undergraduate, but had learned Russian with the Army, It took
me some 20 odd years before I consciously realized that 'tanstaafl' as
spelled in the book was an acronym for the expression 'There Ain't No
Such Thing As A Free Lunch' and not simply a definition of a word. After
I finally understood it, I realized that it was because it was spelled in
lower case unlike the acronyms that I was familiar with and the novel had
a lot of non-english vocabulary, I, totally withouth thinking,
unconsciously made the assumption that it was another non-english word.
This led to what I consider a major insight, (at least for me), into
Heinlein's style. That is what I now call fill-in-the-blank reading. He
writes in such a way that the reader usually makes a lot of unconscious
assumptions, thereby personalizing the works individually to each reader.
Think about this in terms of how various people percieve his works.
David Wright
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24206
From: David Wright Sr."
Date: 6 Dec 2004 00:11:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Holiday Roll Call--followups
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote in news:vd77r0lmgc7gcdlpee45fmrn7t3c3rp2li@
4ax.com:
> Interesting. How near to Priest/Minister/Leader is the position of
> Reader? Is it similar to the R.C. Deacon?
>
>
Reader is the absolute lowest position on the rung. Most readers never go
beyond that step to the Sub-Deacon, Deacon or Priest. It normally doesn't
require anything in the way of formal education. Actually, it is not
canonically required for *any* clergy, (as I understand it), to have formal
education and this has been the case in many countries. In the USA, priests
generally are required to attend seminary and usually become readers, sub-
deacons and/or deacons before they graduate. My oldest son graduated from
seminary, but since he wishes to marry will not seek ordination until after
he is married. A married man can become an Orthodox priest, but a priest
who is unmarried, divorced or widowed cannot marry/remarry. Any one in this
latter category can, however, be tonsured a monk and then be ordained as a
Bishop. It has been the case several times that a highly respected priest
who became a widower was made a monk soon after the funeral of his wife and
ordained Bishop the next day. The marriage restriction normally applies to
Sub-Deacons and Deacons also, which is why my son is still only a Reader.
David Wright
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24207
From: Lorrita Morgan"
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 22:18:42 -0800
Subject: Re: Holiday Roll Call
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Lorrita Morgan (Jones) `rita
Age: 48
US Army 1976-1978 (disabled)
Pasco, Washington
Married to Russell Jones for 22 years separated [this time] for 7 years. (or
10 days if you want to count the last time we shared a "roof" for 24 hours.)
We have two daughters, Athena age 26 and Erin Grey age 22.
Athena is a substitute teacher and her husband of 6 years, Aaron, is a bank
teller. Both are bilingual in Spanish. Their son, Josiah, is 14 months old
and my best buddy when Mommy's working. Erin Grey is a full-time student.
Her SO of 5 years, Jeremy, is a truck driver. Their son, Skye, is 2 1/2 and
a lovable terror. Both grandsons together age me rapidly while I referee
toy custody.
I've been partially disabled since 1976, totally unfit for gainful
employment since 1993. I do volunteer as my church's librarian where it
doesn't matter if I come in on time or if I work a full shift or at all.
Right now it's really bad because I can't read more than a few pages at a
time. (migraines)
I'm an independent (stubborn, hard headed) voter. This year I wrote in a
presidential candidate, voted libertarian for governor, and split everything
else. If I could have thought of a good clean Senatorial prospect, I would
have wrote that one in also.
My first Heinlein was probably The Door into Summer. It's the first one I
went "WOW" over in the summer of 1980. My favorites are Starship Troopers,
If This Goes On ..., Job: a Comedy of Justice, Tunnel in the Sky, and
Citizen of the Galaxy. Maybe more.
I showed up on the old Heinlein Forum BB sometime in 1994 or 95. Prodigy
was just starting to offer 9600 baud<?> service. 14.4 was a dream and DSL
was Speculative Fiction.
--
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
`rita
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24208
From: Eli Hestermann
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 05:42:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Holiday Roll Call
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Eli Hestermann
Age: 32
married to Danielle (or Dani) for 10 years now, no children or feline
masters [1]
I'm a professor in the biology department at Furman University in
Greenville, SC. I teach cell and molecular biology, and really enjoy
teaching our freshman and sophomore level courses. I do research on the
interaction of hormones and environmental chemicals in breast cancer.
First on HF 1994 or 95, right after the move here from P*.
I tried _Star Beast_ at age 8 or so and got bored reading about Lummy
walking around. A year later I got hooked by _Have Spacesuit, Will
Travel_ and never looked back. I've read all of Heinlein's fiction
countless times, and his nonfiction hardly at all. My favorite is
whatever I'm reading at the moment, although I keep coming back to Glory
Road and The Cat Who Walks Through Walls.
I'm a devout Lutheran (Hmm, let's see, lives in South? check! Devout
Protestant? check! Does he follow NASCAR? well, sort of ... right now, I
follow the Patriots and Purdue's teams more than anything. So does that
make me a red-stater? Not according to my vote in the last Presidential
election.) I like to think I'm a religious person who thinks, in Mitchs
classification. I vote for whomever seems best (or least bad) at the
time. I tend to side with the Republicans in matters fiscal and foreign,
and with the Democrats on social and environmental issues.
I've lived in CO, IN, MA, and now SC in the USA. Mixed in there were
stints in (then) West Germany and Japan. Dani and I also like to travel,
and we're about 1/4 done with our long-term project of hiking the
Appalachian Trail (see why we had to move from MA to SC?).
[1] Our new home was previously the abode for an animal lover. The
carpets upstairs are pretty well stained and scented with varioous
products of those animals. We're waiting until we can replace them to
properly prepare the place for a feline master.
--
Eli V. Hestermann
ehestermann@charter.net
"Vita brevis est, ars longa" - Seneca
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24209
From: David M. Silver"
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 11:49:04 -0800
Subject: Re: Holiday Roll Call
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
In article <s8e6r01pg26r84o79a0c5m3hti6ejetpon@4ax.com>,
JT <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote:
> Those of you that have been here for a bit, or just popped back in,
> please post a current/updated Roll Call to fill us in. Say as much or
> as little as you'd like.
David Silver
Age: 62
Married to Andrea, daughter Danielle (age 34) is unmarried, one cat
named Bob who doesn't like anybody very much (outside his immediate
family, but probably won't attack you immediately unless you corner him).
Retired. Used to be a lawyer, was once a soldier. Went to UCLA and
Loyola University Law School on the Vietnam GI Bill. Retired a bit early
after cancer surgery some years ago. No recurrence, yet.
First Heinlein: Rocket Ship Galileo in 1954 at age eleven.
Politics: Like Mitch I tell people I'm a liberal. I try to avoid
political discussions, not always successfully.
Religion: Agnostic. My parents were of differing religions and married
in 1941. Raised Roman Catholic, my mother's religion. My father was an
orthodox Jew.
I keep busy, driving my patient wife nuts by trying to build up The
Heinlein Society because Ginny asked me to. See,
http://www.heinleinsociety.org/news/president090803.html
Someday I might write some fiction on purpose.
--
David M. Silver
http://www.heinleinsociety.org
"The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!"
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA '29
Lt.(jg), USN, R'td
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24210
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 22:23:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Internet Love - STOOGE37.WAV (0/1)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT: Sorry about that. I didn't realize that it might be a problem
(attaching a sound file to a posting)
?Does this tend to clog the site or use up the bandwidth? I have
observed that this is mostly text-only. Have you any useful posting
tips that you would care to share with us? Thanks,
Ed J
On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 11:36:38 -0500, JT <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote:
<snip>
>
>I'm not sure that it's great protocol to attach files to your post,
>Ed, but it was funny. ;)
>
>
>
>> The Internet _Is_ all around us, we should us it to bring in
>>those cobbers who have strayed from the flock.
>>
>>All: Shall we begin a Roll Call?
>>
>You don't ask to begin it, you just start! :)
>
>JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24211
From: JT
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 20:02:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Internet Love - STOOGE37.WAV (0/1)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 22:23:54 -0500, Ed Johnson
<eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote:
>JT: Sorry about that. I didn't realize that it might be a problem
>(attaching a sound file to a posting)
> ?Does this tend to clog the site or use up the bandwidth? I have
>observed that this is mostly text-only. Have you any useful posting
>tips that you would care to share with us? Thanks,
>
I'm not sure how attachments appear for everyone--in Agent they are
listed as a secondary post and the reader is smart enough to decode
the file. In older newsreaders it's probably a large encoded-as-text
attachment, which might be annoying.
I don't have a problem with it per se, it's just that I don't know how
many of us are using the older newsreaders. Generally files are in
specific groups (the .binaries you see over USENET) and not really
liked elsewhere.
Maybe I'm behind on my netiquette--anyone else feel free to chime in
here.
Not a huge deal anyway, with the traffic we get in the group these
days. ;)
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24212
From: Filksinger
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 18:26:29 -0800
Subject: Re: Internet Love - STOOGE37.WAV (0/1)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT wrote:
<snip>
>
> I'm not sure how attachments appear for everyone--in Agent they are
> listed as a secondary post and the reader is smart enough to decode
> the file. In older newsreaders it's probably a large encoded-as-text
> attachment, which might be annoying.
I see it the same way you do, in Thunderbird 0.9. Note, however, that it
is already missing from the server.
BTW, Thunderbird has an RC1 out. I'll let everyone know what I think,
along with the final release of Firefox 1.0, after I've had a chance to
try it out.
> I don't have a problem with it per se, it's just that I don't know how
> many of us are using the older newsreaders. Generally files are in
> specific groups (the .binaries you see over USENET) and not really
> liked elsewhere.
That has to do with both bandwidth and server storage restrictions. On
USENET, for example, the person downloading your message might be in
Africa, using a 486 news server and an ISP that only has a 56k modem for
the entire ISP. Even a tiny binary might be a serious problem in extreme
cases.
> Maybe I'm behind on my netiquette--anyone else feel free to chime in
> here.
Here, the netiquette is very simple and clear: whatever we decide,
within the rules of SFF.Net. It is, after all, a private group.
Personally, I don't have any problems with any reasonable binary,
because I am using a good speed DSL on the cheap, and probably won't
even notice the download delay or the hard drive space.
However, I would have a problem with us setting the rule by me, or even
by the "typical user". I'd hate to lose even a lurker because most of us
had broadband. Any rule we make should be aimed at the technological
least common denominator. Aiming at people with a very poor African ISP
might be a bit much, but I don't think we should assume anything better
than a 28.8 modem, considering the number of people who can't get a
better connection.
Note that, as an ISP tech, I saw a lot of people whose computers
_theoretically_ had better than 28.8k download speeds, but actually got
better throughput by turning their modem's _down_ to 28.8k, due to 28.8k
protocols handling interference on the lines better than 56k.
> Not a huge deal anyway, with the traffic we get in the group these
> days. ;)
There is that, too.
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24213
From: wdailey611@aol.com
Date: 9 Dec 2004 09:13:44 GMT
Subject: Re: First Snow in Minnesota
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Hi Deb,
First snow in Minnesota??? No wonder I haven't been able to get ahold of
you. If you will, give me your address by email. I have something to send
you.
Happy Birthday, Happy Thanksgiving, and Merry Christmas!
And the same to all of you on the Heinlein Forum (well, except the birthday.
That's for Deb). I haven't been active on this forum for a few years,
but I was one of the earliest back in the early 90s on Prodigy. Maybe some
of the old-timers will remember.
Bill (formerly in MN, now in KC)
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24214
From: Charles Graft
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 08:31:13 -0500
Subject: Re: First Snow in Minnesota
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Hi, Bill--
Welcome back. I was in Minneapolis last spring, but had no idea
how to get hold of you or if you were even there. Turns out you
weren't. . .
--
<<Big Charlie>>
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In
practice, however, there is.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24215
From: Charles Graft
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 08:42:57 -0500
Subject: An armed society . . . .
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
A paragraph for the Stephen Chapman column dated 11/28/2004
in Conservative Chronicle 12/8/2004
Believed to be fair use
The column is about hunters.
"Another is that they have learned the basics of hunting etiquette in
know how to handle disputes in a
peaceable manner.
The presence of guns has a tendency to promote politeness. When hunters
come
across other hunters, the "in your face" approach is not usually the
preferred one."
----------------------------
"The presence of guns has a tendency to promote politeness." Hmmm.
Seems to me I've heard that
somewhere before.
--
<<Big Charlie>>
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In
practice, however, there is.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24216
From: cdozo
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 08:09:27 -0600
Subject: Re: "An armed society . . . .
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I tangled with a bunch of slightly drunk, armed
hunters, back when I was a hitchhiker. They were
anything but polite.
Useful rule: Don't win a bet, however honestly you do
it, with people who are armed and drunk. :)
Carol
===================
Charles Graft wrote:
> A paragraph for the Stephen Chapman column dated 11/28/2004
> in Conservative Chronicle 12/8/2004
> Believed to be fair use
>
> The column is about hunters.
>
> "Another is that they have learned the basics of hunting etiquette in
> know how to handle disputes in a
> peaceable manner.
> The presence of guns has a tendency to promote politeness. When hunters
> come
> across other hunters, the "in your face" approach is not usually the
> preferred one."
> ----------------------------
> "The presence of guns has a tendency to promote politeness." Hmmm.
> Seems to me I've heard that
> somewhere before.
> --
> <<Big Charlie>>
>
> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In
> practice, however, there is.
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24217
From: Charles Graft
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 09:13:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Holiday Roll Call
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
CHASGRAFT@aol.com
Charles (V.) Graft (III)
Born: Aug. 21, 1943
Brief description: 6'3" 270 lb, bald and bearded.
Army brat upbringing -- lived in three countries and six states.
Was semi retired office machine and computer technician. Am now working
(if that is the word) for the US postal service as an Electronic
Technician ("Need an ET on sorter #12") repairing sorting equipment.
(Almost six years now.)
Dropped out of Purdue University after two years work and almost three
years residence. Lived in Indianapolis since February of 1965.
Married to Patricia on June 15 2002. Moved in to our new house March
2002.
Have sold patent on computerized voting system. Hope to make my fortune
from this. But it wasn't enough to 1) pay my bills (mostly from a
failed marriage) 2) pay my living expenses and 3) set up my retirement.
So the postal service keeps me fed while I wait for my ship to dock.
First read RAH about 1955 with "Starman Jones". "Red Planet" made more
of an impression. Did not particularly like SIASL on first reading when
I was in High School (Heidelberg, Germany). I like it lots better now
-- particularly the uncut version. My favorite RAH is usually "The Moon
is a Harsh Mistress".
Taste in movies: Disney, Light comedy, and musicals. Have over 700
DVDs, Laserdiscs, and (original) videocassettes.
Taste in music -- 1955-1965. Broadway. Big Band. Some classical.
Enya. We have season tickets to the local broadway series.
Pets: Dorian Grey, mostly gray but five colored female cat 15 years
old. Lives indoors. Cooker, a quite large black and white male six
year old (estimated) who has had several homes, has become Patrician's
cat.
Hobbies:
Railroading Operation of large (full size) railroad equipment (am
FRA certified locomotive engineer (steam and diesel) and conductor for
Whitewater Valley RR in Connersville, IN.
I've gotten back involved in the model railroading with the interest
having been revived by moving my childhood collection from the old house
to the new one. Been on EBay lately buying model train stuff to
excess. Plan on "O" gauge and possible "HO" gauge in the basement after
retirement. And there are also plans for a "garden railway" ("G" gauge)
to start construction next spring.
Motorcycling (1981 KAW KS550) Not currently running.
Scuba
Camera Sony Digital 8 with still (memory stick) capability.
Hi-Fi / Video (Laserdisc; Ohm Walsh 4 speakers for you audiophiles)
Sailboating
Travel
Flying Had an expensive round being part owner of a Beech
sundowner. Formerly owned a Mooney 201 -- a great machine. Currently
renting Cessna 172s from the local airport. Having airline benefits
from 2 brothers (one of whom is my legal son) working for different
airlines makes private flying for travel way to expensive.
Personal Married Patricia June 2002. No kids on ether side.
First Time on HF -- May of 1992. Have attended four national gatherings
and hosted three east coast ones. Will offer more if there is any
interest.
--
<<Big Charlie>>
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In
practice, however, there is.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24218
From: Mitch Wagner"
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 19:13:18 +0000
Subject: Re: "An armed society . . . .
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Charles Graft" <chasgraft@aol.com> wrote in message
news:chasgraft@aol.com:
> "The presence of guns has a tendency to promote politeness." Hmmm.
> Seems to me I've heard that
> somewhere before.
Heh.
I knew a guy who worked on an oil rig one summer. He said all the men
were armed all the time---handguns, knives, knucks, etc. They were, he
said, rude pigs.
Mitch Wagner
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24219
From: JT
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 18:06:24 -0500
Subject: Re: First Snow in Minnesota
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On 9 Dec 2004 09:13:44 GMT, wdailey611@aol.com wrote:
>And the same to all of you on the Heinlein Forum (well, except the birthday.
> That's for Deb). I haven't been active on this forum for a few years,
>but I was one of the earliest back in the early 90s on Prodigy. Maybe some
>of the old-timers will remember.
>
>Bill (formerly in MN, now in KC)
Hi Bill! I guess Ed's magic chant worked, 'cause we got you to come
back and post something. ;) Hope you stay around a while this time.
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24220
From: William Keaton"
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 22:05:18 -0500
Subject: Re: Holiday Roll Call
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
WJaKe
William J. Keaton
Leaving on vacation in the morning. More later.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24221
From: William Keaton"
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 22:12:42 -0500
Subject: TANSTAAFL
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"David Wright Sr." <dwrightsr@alltel.net> wrote
> Note 1: I believe that I first read _The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress_
> somewhere around 1970. I understood the meaning of TANSTAAFL, but because
> I had just graduated with a computer degree and had had not only a German
> major as an undergraduate, but had learned Russian with the Army, It took
> me some 20 odd years before I consciously realized that 'tanstaafl' as
> spelled in the book was an acronym for the expression 'There Ain't No
> Such Thing As A Free Lunch' and not simply a definition of a word.
How did it sound in your head? I always heard it as a word, not as a long
un-wieldly acronym, and bought into it along with all the rest of the
Russkie/Aussie/Loonie slang.
WJaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24222
From: David Wright Sr."
Date: 10 Dec 2004 04:05:52 GMT
Subject: Re: TANSTAAFL
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"William Keaton" <wjake@-9verizon.net> wrote in
news:41b9143d.0@news.sff.net:
>
> "David Wright Sr." <dwrightsr@alltel.net> wrote
>> Note 1: I believe that I first read _The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress_
>> somewhere around 1970. I understood the meaning of TANSTAAFL, but
>> because I had just graduated with a computer degree and had had not
>> only a German major as an undergraduate, but had learned Russian with
>> the Army, It took me some 20 odd years before I consciously realized
>> that 'tanstaafl' as spelled in the book was an acronym for the
>> expression 'There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch' and not simply
>> a definition of a word.
>
> How did it sound in your head? I always heard it as a word, not as a
> long un-wieldly acronym, and bought into it along with all the rest of
> the Russkie/Aussie/Loonie slang.
>
> WJaKe
>
>
Precisely, I thought that it might be Dutch or Frisian, perhaps. Nothing
else like it in the book, but there were a several different linguistic
influences, so I just thought it was another one.
I heard it as 'tahns-tahffel'
--
David Wright
If you haven't joined the Society, Why Not?
http://heinleinsociety.org/join.html
Keep Up with the Latest
http://www.heinleinsociety.org/updates.html
Benefit The Heinlein Society by ordering books thru
http://home.alltel.net/dwrighsr/heinlein-amazon.htm
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24223
From: Filksinger
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 20:10:22 -0800
Subject: Re: TANSTAAFL
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
David Wright Sr. wrote:
>
> Precisely, I thought that it might be Dutch or Frisian, perhaps. Nothing
> else like it in the book, but there were a several different linguistic
> influences, so I just thought it was another one.
>
> I heard it as 'tahns-tahffel'
I don't remember not knowing what it was, but I always pronounce it in
my head as tan-staff-el. Tan and staff as the words, "el" as the name of
the letter L, or "hell" without the "h".
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24224
From: Robert Slater"
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 22:37:44 -0800
Subject: Re: Holiday Roll Call
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"It took me some 20 odd years before I consciously realized that 'tanstaafl'
as spelled in the book was an acronym for the expression 'There Ain't No
Such Thing As A Free Lunch' and not simply a definition of a word."
Wow, David.
I thought I was the only one who'd done that. Interestingly enough I've
studied Russian a number of times (85, 91, 99) though never enough to have
it stick well.
Rob
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24225
From: David Wright Sr."
Date: 10 Dec 2004 10:46:16 GMT
Subject: Re: TANSTAAFL
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Filksinger <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in news:41b921ae.0
@news.sff.net:
>> I heard it as 'tahns-tahffel'
>
> I don't remember not knowing what it was, but I always pronounce it in
> my head as tan-staff-el. Tan and staff as the words, "el" as the name of
> the letter L, or "hell" without the "h".
>
>
I guess I was influenced by German, hence the 'ah' instead of the 'a' sound
as in 'tan' or 'bat' and the emphasis on the first syllable thus making
'el' the schwa sound, sort of an 'uhl'.
--
David Wright
If you haven't joined the Society, Why Not?
http://heinleinsociety.org/join.html
Keep Up with the Latest
http://www.heinleinsociety.org/updates.html
Benefit The Heinlein Society by ordering books thru
http://home.alltel.net/dwrighsr/heinlein-amazon.htm
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24226
From: David Wright Sr."
Date: 10 Dec 2004 10:52:28 GMT
Subject: Re: Holiday Roll Call
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Robert Slater" <rslater215@comcast.net> wrote in
news:41b94439.0@news.sff.net:
(snip)
> Wow, David.
> I thought I was the only one who'd done that. Interestingly enough
> I've studied Russian a number of times (85, 91, 99) though never
> enough to have it stick well.
>
I completed a year of intensive study in November of 1963, so mine tends
to be somewhat spotty after 41 years. One of the things that I want to do
after I retire is to work really hard to bring it back up to par.
BTW, I just finished re-reading _Methusalems Kinder_,in German which
despite the title is not _Methusaleh's Children_, but is _The Past
Through Tomorrow_. It was a gift from Ginny Heinlein.
--
David Wright
If you haven't joined the Society, Why Not?
http://heinleinsociety.org/join.html
Keep Up with the Latest
http://www.heinleinsociety.org/updates.html
Benefit The Heinlein Society by ordering books thru
http://home.alltel.net/dwrighsr/heinlein-amazon.htm
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24227
From: Deb@sff.net (D.A. Houdek)
Date: 10 Dec 2004 15:45:26 GMT
Subject: Home again
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
So... if one trip across the country (towing a trailer) wasn't enough, I
just turned around and did it again but this time with a 33' Uhaul truck.
Unloaded in MN and turned the truck in yesterday. 2200 miles and I didn't
hit anything, scrape anything, or smoosh anyone (though a couple cars tried
to make me squish them--hey, morons! I can't see you on that side and I'm
in an 18,000 pound truck and you're in a 2000 pound car, do the math!).
I now fully understand why a truck going 35mph will pull out to pass a
truck going 30mph up a mountain--not willing to surrender that extra 5mph
of speed. The big climbs were out of Salt Lake City and over the Continental
Divide out of Laramie, Wyoming. I was down to 30mph with my flashers on
for both of those, but the beastie managed it.
This all came up very abruptly--priced out moving companies and would
save about $4000 doing the hauling myself, even with the flight and such.
Northwest had a good last-minute fare, so did this on about 2 days' notice.
Airport security was interesting--a last-minute ticket immediately tags
you as DANGER, plus I had a handgun in my suitcase so I got to do the whole
fun array of security (they were completely professional--no complaints).
I thought the gun in the suitcase would be weird but, no. They were very
cool, get lots shipped through that way (Minnesota airport--lots of hunters
flying through).
Three, four days driving in that big diesel truck, with a snowstorm about
a day behind me--but no problems, dry the whole way. My niece and a co-worker/friend
of hers helped me unload yesterday. This place isn't empty anymore (gawd,
but we have a lot of stuff!). Now to get Geo and the Buddy-cat here and
we'll be complete.
Deb
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24228
From: Mitch Wagner"
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 20:39:16 +0000
Subject: Re: TANSTAAFL
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"William Keaton" <wjake@-9verizon.net> wrote in message
news:wjake@-9verizon.net:
> "David Wright Sr." <dwrightsr@alltel.net> wrote
> > Note 1: I believe that I first read _The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress_
> > somewhere around 1970. I understood the meaning of TANSTAAFL, but
> > because
> > I had just graduated with a computer degree and had had not only a
> > German
> > major as an undergraduate, but had learned Russian with the Army, It
> > took
> > me some 20 odd years before I consciously realized that 'tanstaafl' as
> > spelled in the book was an acronym for the expression 'There Ain't No
> > Such Thing As A Free Lunch' and not simply a definition of a word.
>
> How did it sound in your head?
Tahn-stah-fl.
Mitch Wagner
------------------------------------------------------------
============================================================
Archive of: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Archive desc: The Internet home for the Heinlein Forum
Archived by: webnews@sff.net
Archive date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 12:14:21
First article in this archive: 24195
Last article in this archive: 24228
Oldest article in this archive: 4 Dec 2004 00:33:07 GMT
Newest article in this archive: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 16:34:08 -0800