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Archive of: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Archive desc: The Internet home for the Heinlein Forum
Archived by: webnews@sff.net
Archive date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:57:28
============================================================
Article 22087
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 02:11:54 GMT
Subject: Re: Ginny's Passing
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Tue, 21 Jan 2003 17:15:54 -0500, Jane Davitt <jdavitt01@rogers.com>
wrote:
>I see it fine using Netscape 7. It's the picture from Grumbles, isn't it?
>
Darned if it doesn't appear to be. Page 194 from the hardback. But
mine is in color. ;)
How do you people with mutant memories live with yourselves? <VBG>
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22088
From: Jane Davitt
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:00:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Ginny's Passing
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Jan 2003 17:15:54 -0500, Jane Davitt <jdavitt01@rogers.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>I see it fine using Netscape 7. It's the picture from Grumbles, isn't it?
>>
>
> Darned if it doesn't appear to be. Page 194 from the hardback. But
> mine is in color. ;)
>
> How do you people with mutant memories live with yourselves? <VBG>
>
> JT
I do have an excellent memory - for books. That's it. It doesn't seem to
carry over into any other area sadly.:-(
But an image is easy to recognise; there are only a few pics of Ginny
that I've seen, so not too hard to remember that one.
Jane
--
My Buffy the Vampire Slayer fiction is archived at
http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=231516
and http://dotcreative.envy.nu/archive/al.html
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22089
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 23:31:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Ginny's Passing
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT: IE 5.5 worked just fine to get to this picture.
Ed J
On Tue, 21 Jan 2003 21:45:14 GMT, JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT) wrote:
>>> I did a quick low-quality scan of the photo at:
>>> http://hammer.prohosting.com/~tilden/heinleins.jpg ; I'm not intending
>>> to leave it up permanently.
>>>
>Hmmm. I just cutnpasted it and it worked fine, also browsed by going
>to my webpage and replacing the file name. Can anyone else get to it,
>or is it possible IE6 (my browser) likes it while other browsers may
>not?
>
>JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22090
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 23:41:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Snowy
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Beatrice: Did you get a chance to see that nice picture of Ginny
with Snowy? Doc Coffin forwarded it to a lot of people.
Ed J
On Sat, 18 Jan 2003 18:49:50 -0400, Beatrice Kondo
<bkondo1@umbc.edu> wrote:
>Thanks, Jim... I was just asking Dad about that, I was sure that someone had
>made plans, but it's nice to be sure.
>
>Beatrice
>
>"James R. Cunningham" wrote:
>
>> For those of you who know of Ginny's cat Snowy, he has been staying with
>> a friend since Thanksgiving, is happy, and will remain there.
>> JimC
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22091
From: noone"
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 02:47:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Ginny's Passing
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
it worked for me, a framed photo of ginny at what looked like a buffet
table.
"gunner"
"JT" <JT@REM0VE.sff.net> wrote in message
news:3e2dbee2.194919531@news.sff.net...
> On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 13:09:56 -0800, "James R. Cunningham"
> <jrccea@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> >P.S. clicking on the link gives a 404 error.
> >Jim
> >
>
> >> I did a quick low-quality scan of the photo at:
> >> http://hammer.prohosting.com/~tilden/heinleins.jpg ; I'm not intending
> >> to leave it up permanently.
> >>
> Hmmm. I just cutnpasted it and it worked fine, also browsed by going
> to my webpage and replacing the file name. Can anyone else get to it,
> or is it possible IE6 (my browser) likes it while other browsers may
> not?
>
> JT
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22092
From: Eli Hestermann
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:43:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Ginny's Passing
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Netscape 4.6 gave me file not found, but IE5 (both on Mac) got it OK.
Weird.
JT wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 13:09:56 -0800, "James R. Cunningham"
> <jrccea@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> >P.S. clicking on the link gives a 404 error.
> >Jim
> >
>
> >> I did a quick low-quality scan of the photo at:
> >> http://hammer.prohosting.com/~tilden/heinleins.jpg ; I'm not intending
> >> to leave it up permanently.
> >>
> Hmmm. I just cutnpasted it and it worked fine, also browsed by going
> to my webpage and replacing the file name. Can anyone else get to it,
> or is it possible IE6 (my browser) likes it while other browsers may
> not?
>
> JT
--
Eli V. Hestermann
Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu
"Vita brevis est, ars longa." -Seneca
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22093
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 02:10:31 GMT
Subject: Re: Ginny's Passing
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:43:45 -0500, Eli Hestermann
<Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu> wrote:
>Netscape 4.6 gave me file not found, but IE5 (both on Mac) got it OK.
>Weird.
>
I bet Netscape has no ability to natively display .jpgs, just as
elements of a page. I was too lazy to work up a three sentence web
page for it. Anyway, I emailed Jim the scan privately, and everyone
owns Grumbles anyway. ;)
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22094
From: pixelmeow
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:17:14 -0500
Subject: Asa Hunter Memorial Book Exchange
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Notice that the Book Exchange is up and running at its new ad free
home. Go to http://pixelmeow.com/ and click the link in the middle of
the page. You can bookmark this page, its location will not change.
Please note that I am the moderator of the site, and all
correspondence should come to "moderator@pixelmeow.com".
Thanks, and enjoy!
--
~teresa~
^..^ "Never try to outstubborn a cat." Robert A. Heinlein ^..^
http://pixelmeow.com/ http://www.heinleinsociety.org/
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22095
From: James R. Cunningham"
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:35:44 -0800
Subject: Re: Snowy
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
And I've got one of Snowy inside the piano when he was a kitten.
JimC
Ed Johnson wrote:
>
> Beatrice: Did you get a chance to see that nice picture of Ginny
> with Snowy? Doc Coffin forwarded it to a lot of people.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22096
From: David Wright"
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 15:09:40 -0500
Subject: Heinlein Readers Group Log Archives have moved
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
With the permission of The Heinlein Society, the Heinlein Readers Group
Discussion Archived Logs have been moved to the Society's website. They may
be accessed at
http://heinleinsociety.org/Archives/ReadersGrp/index.html
In addition to their new home here, the archived logs have been given a
facelift and a new index program with descriptions. The index also contains
instructions for downloading the AIM program, and instructions on how to get
to the HRG chat room
The newly updated archives starts off with the 01-23-2003 Thursday Meeting.
Our topic was "Remembering Ginny". It may be found at
http://heinleinsociety.org/Archives/ReadersGrp/AIM_01-23-2003.html
For those of you who couldn't make the Thursday meeting, or for anyone who
wishes to come again, there will be another meeting Saturday 01-25-2003 at
5:00 P.M. EST
--
David Wright
Webmaster The Heinlein Society
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22097
From: David Wright"
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 15:35:31 -0500
Subject: Heinlein Readers Group Log Archives have moved
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
With the permission of The Heinlein Society, the Heinlein Readers Group
Discussion Archived Logs have been move to the Society's website. They may
be accessed at
http://heinleinsociety.org/Archives/ReadersGrp/index.html
In addition to their new home here, the archived logs have been given a
facelift and a new index program with descriptions. The index also contains
instructions for downloading the AIM program, and instructions on how to get
to the HRG chat room
The newly updated archives starts off with the 01-23-2003 Thursday Meeting.
Our topic was "Remembering Ginny". It may be found at
http://heinleinsociety.org/Archives/ReadersGrp/AIM_01-23-2003.html
For those of you who couldn't make the Thursday meeting, or for anyone who
wishes to come again, there will be another meeting Saturday 01-25-2003 at
5:00 P.M. EST
--
David Wright
Webmaster The Heinlein Society
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22098
From: James R. Cunningham"
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 10:00:44 -0800
Subject: Butler joins the OOPS Brigade
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
One of the local board members of Ginny's Butler foundation just called
to tell me that the Butler newpaper has elected to use one of the long
obituaries found on the internet in lieu of the short notice of her
death that she preferred. When she informed him of Ginny's wishes, he
responded "I'm editor of the paper, I can print what I want". Ah,
well. But the reason I'm posting this, is to add that he said the
Butler painting was too pastel to use for a photo in the paper. I'll
take a picture of it during the board meeting this summer and will
convert it to a jpeg if any of you would like for me to send it to you
privately.
All the best,
Jim
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22099
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 21:15:51 GMT
Subject: Re: ST:Nemesis (contains spoilers)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
>On Sun, 15 Dec 2002 07:09:25 GMT, fader555@aol.com (Fader) wrote:
>
>>So anyone else seen it yet? I think that they screwed it up, some
>>storyline/continuity problems. Other than that not bad, good effects.
>>
So I finally saw it this afternoon. Wanted to see it on a big screen
with good sound, and we just couldn't find a way for both of us to go
see it, so Christine graciously let me go without her. (She was tired
of me whining about wanting to see it.)
I agree with Deb, it was a good episode, just had major 'events' in
it. Liked seeing Wesley at the wedding, but curious if he's still a
superbeing-in-training or not. The nod to Admiral Janeway was
interesting, I guess we knew she'd be promoted by the way she went
back in time to help rescue her crew, though.
The other interesting background piece I noticed was that one of the
ships in the fleet that they were to join up with was the
Archer....nice retconning. <G>
As for Data's death, well, they telegraphed it a mile away. The
personal transporter 'that only works for one', downloading all the
memories into B4, etc.
It was actually pretty effective, though. What I would like to see is
if Geordi uses all of his years of working with Data to give B4 a
chance by upgrading the hardware the best he could. B4 could use
Data's experience, just like a Trill. A different person, but yet the
same.
I'm much more excited by Trek fiction than the last few movies--I
think because that allows for greater character development. That's
one of the reasons why _Enterprise_ is watchable--you want to see how
Humanity created the rules of the Federation; the screwups that led to
the Prime Directive, the Vulcans learning the mind meld, etc.
Anyway, Nemesis was better than Insurrection, but what the heck is the
next one going to be about? Close the door on TNG and reboot again,
folks.....
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22100
From: David Wright"
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 22:38:25 -0500
Subject: Heinlein Readers Group - Remembering Ginny 01-25-2003
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
The Heinlein Readers Group met again on Saturday 01-25-2003 for
Remembrances of Ginny Heinlein.
http://heinleinsociety.org/Archives/ReadersGrp/AIM_01-25-2003.html
--
Related Heinlein Web Pages
http://www.heinleinsociety.org/
http://www.alltel.net/~dwrighsr/heinlein.html
http://www.nitrosyncretic.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22101
From: filksinger@earthling.net
Date: 28 Jan 2003 18:02:36 GMT
Subject: At least nobody died
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
As my friends, I'd like you to keep this under your hat, but, in reality,
it probably doesn't matter. It will be all over the Internet in about 15
minutes, probably, and in the news by afternoon.
Earthlink, my employer, has decided to close three out of its seven call
centers. I get a severance package, which means that, if I get a job quick,
I might end up seeing this as a good thing, overall, especially as the main
reason I haven't left is that I couldn't afford to jump ship and have it
not work out. However, in the short run, it means I am out of work as of
Feb 21st.
However, if anybody has Earthlink stock, this is good news for you.:)
Anybody looking for an experienced computer tech geek specializing in troubleshooting
PCs, Windows, networking, and security (but without real hands-on experience
in the security department)?
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Earthlink Technical Support
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22102
From: John Paul Vrolyk
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 13:36:53 -0500
Subject: Re: At least nobody died
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
filksinger@earthling.net wrote:
> Earthlink, my employer, has decided to close three out of its seven call
> centers. I get a severance package, which means that, if I get a job quick,
> I might end up seeing this as a good thing, overall, especially as the main
> reason I haven't left is that I couldn't afford to jump ship and have it
> not work out. However, in the short run, it means I am out of work as of
> Feb 21st.
Sorry to hear that, and I hope it works out for you. I know how you feel,
as I I got laid off myself back in November. Unfortuneately, I haven't
found a new job yet.
> Anybody looking for an experienced computer tech geek specializing in troubleshooting
> PCs, Windows, networking, and security (but without real hands-on experience
> in the security department)?
Or a software developer? :-)
--
John Paul Vrolyk
jp@vrolyk.org
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22103
From: SpaceCadet
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 13:58:56 -0600
Subject: Re: At least nobody died
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Filk,
You have my sympathies. I'll keep an ear out for any jobs.
Carol
========
filksinger@earthling.net wrote:
> As my friends, I'd like you to keep this under your hat, but, in reality,
> it probably doesn't matter. It will be all over the Internet in about 15
> minutes, probably, and in the news by afternoon.
>
> Earthlink, my employer, has decided to close three out of its seven call
> centers. I get a severance package, which means that, if I get a job quick,
> I might end up seeing this as a good thing, overall, especially as the main
> reason I haven't left is that I couldn't afford to jump ship and have it
> not work out. However, in the short run, it means I am out of work as of
> Feb 21st.
>
> However, if anybody has Earthlink stock, this is good news for you.:)
>
> Anybody looking for an experienced computer tech geek specializing in troubleshooting
> PCs, Windows, networking, and security (but without real hands-on experience
> in the security department)?
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22104
From: Bryan R. Stahl"
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 22:44:12 +0200
Subject: Re: At least nobody died
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message news:3e36c5bc.0@news.sff.net...
> As my friends, I'd like you to keep this under your hat, but, in reality,
> it probably doesn't matter. It will be all over the Internet in about 15
> minutes, probably, and in the news by afternoon.
>
> Earthlink, my employer, has decided to close three out of its seven call
> centers. I get a severance package, which means that, if I get a job
quick,
> I might end up seeing this as a good thing, overall, especially as the
main
> reason I haven't left is that I couldn't afford to jump ship and have it
> not work out. However, in the short run, it means I am out of work as of
> Feb 21st.
>
> However, if anybody has Earthlink stock, this is good news for you.:)
>
> Anybody looking for an experienced computer tech geek specializing in
troubleshooting
> PCs, Windows, networking, and security (but without real hands-on
experience
> in the security department)?
> --
> Filksinger
> AKA David Nasset, Sr.
> Earthlink Technical Support
Temporary delurk:
Try http://www.careers.state.gov/specialist/jobs/ad_ims.html
It's what I do.
Bryan
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22105
From: William Dennis"
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 17:58:43 -0600
Subject: Re: At least nobody died
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message news:3e36c5bc.0@news.sff.net...
> As my friends, I'd like you to keep this under your hat, but, in reality,
> it probably doesn't matter. It will be all over the Internet in about 15
> minutes, probably, and in the news by afternoon.
>
> Earthlink, my employer, has decided to close three out of its seven call
> centers. I get a severance package, which means that, if I get a job
quick,
> I might end up seeing this as a good thing, overall, especially as the
main
> reason I haven't left is that I couldn't afford to jump ship and have it
> not work out. However, in the short run, it means I am out of work as of
> Feb 21st.
>
> However, if anybody has Earthlink stock, this is good news for you.:)
>
> Anybody looking for an experienced computer tech geek specializing in
troubleshooting
> PCs, Windows, networking, and security (but without real hands-on
experience
> in the security department)?
As someone who recently entered the ranks of the unemployed, you have my
sympathies. But, at least you can sleep late and catch up on young soaps
for a week or so ...
--
Bill Dennis
http://billdennis.net
"I believe it is better to tell the truth than to lie. I believe that it is
better to be free than to be a slave. And I believe that it is better to
know than to be ignorant." -- H.L. Mencken
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22106
From: John Bartley K7AAY
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 17:05:25 -0800
Subject: Re: At least nobody died
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
http://www.uscourts.gov/employment/vacancies.html
lists job in the Judicial Branch and
http://www.usajobs.opm.gov/a14.htm
lists jobs in the Executive Branch of the USG.
On 28 Jan 2003 18:02:36 GMT, filksinger@earthling.net wrote:
>As my friends, I'd like you to keep this under your hat, but, in reality,
>it probably doesn't matter. It will be all over the Internet in about 15
>minutes, probably, and in the news by afternoon.
>
>Earthlink, my employer, has decided to close three out of its seven call
>centers. I get a severance package, which means that, if I get a job quick,
>I might end up seeing this as a good thing, overall, especially as the main
>reason I haven't left is that I couldn't afford to jump ship and have it
>not work out. However, in the short run, it means I am out of work as of
>Feb 21st.
>
>However, if anybody has Earthlink stock, this is good news for you.:)
>
>Anybody looking for an experienced computer tech geek specializing in troubleshooting
>PCs, Windows, networking, and security (but without real hands-on experience
>in the security department)?
..
--
John Bartley, K7AAY, telcom admin, PDX-OR - views mine.
The world is run by those who show up. VOTE. ASK. AGITATE.
http://palmwireless.cjb.net Wireless FAQ for PalmOS
http://celdata.cjb.net Handheld's Cellular Data FAQ
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22107
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 01:59:40 GMT
Subject: Re: At least nobody died
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Tue, 28 Jan 2003 17:05:25 -0800, John Bartley K7AAY
<johnbartley@email.com> wrote:
>http://www.uscourts.gov/employment/vacancies.html
>lists job in the Judicial Branch and
>http://www.usajobs.opm.gov/a14.htm
>lists jobs in the Executive Branch of the USG.
And now that there's a budget again, there might be a few more job
openings. But other good avenues are Lockheed Martin, TRW, etc. All
those government jobs that are being "cut"--they're just moving the
money around to contracted employees. They sit in the same cubicles,
work similar hours, just with different timesheets and a few different
holidays.
It's not as secure as federal government employ, but they are usually
long-term contracts and they have to be filled somehow. ;)
Best of luck to you all!
(12 years with the feds and not going anywhere soon ....)
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22108
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 22:08:51 -0500
Subject: Re: At least nobody died
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Bryan: Welcome to the Heinlein Forum (you should delurk more often
<g>.)
I am itching to leave my current job and the ad shown in your
link below is intriguing. I seem to be qualified for the position
mentioned. I have been a LAN administrator for over four years
and I have previously held a top secret security clearance based on
a full background investigation. (My case number is on file with
the FBI.) My background included PC hardware before receiving
network training.
I'm not so sure that I would enjoy the travel. Still, it caught
my eye.
Ed J
On Tue, 28 Jan 2003 22:44:12 +0200, "Bryan R. Stahl"
<brstahl@sprynet.com> wrote:
>
>Temporary delurk:
>
>Try http://www.careers.state.gov/specialist/jobs/ad_ims.html
>
>It's what I do.
>
>Bryan
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22109
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 22:11:35 -0500
Subject: Re: At least nobody died
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
FS: Good Luck in your job search. If nothing turns up right away,
I have a suggestion. You might want to sign up with a few temporary
agencies. I did this before I landed my current job with State
government. I was looking for experience in a new field. You might
be sent to someone as a temp who would want you full time.
Just a thought.
Ed J
On 28 Jan 2003 18:02:36 GMT, filksinger@earthling.net wrote:
>As my friends, I'd like you to keep this under your hat, but, in reality,
>it probably doesn't matter. It will be all over the Internet in about 15
>minutes, probably, and in the news by afternoon.
>
>Earthlink, my employer, has decided to close three out of its seven call
>centers. I get a severance package, which means that, if I get a job quick,
>I might end up seeing this as a good thing, overall, especially as the main
>reason I haven't left is that I couldn't afford to jump ship and have it
>not work out. However, in the short run, it means I am out of work as of
>Feb 21st.
>
>However, if anybody has Earthlink stock, this is good news for you.:)
>
>Anybody looking for an experienced computer tech geek specializing in troubleshooting
>PCs, Windows, networking, and security (but without real hands-on experience
>in the security department)?
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22110
From: noone"
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 00:52:54 -0500
Subject: Re: At least nobody died
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
wish i could help you david, but my security work has been out on the pistol
packing thug end. but i'll wish you best luck and hope the end is better
than the beginning.
"gunner"
------------------------------
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message news:3e36c5bc.0@news.sff.net...
> As my friends, I'd like you to keep this under your hat, but, in reality,
> it probably doesn't matter. It will be all over the Internet in about 15
> minutes, probably, and in the news by afternoon.
>
> Earthlink, my employer, has decided to close three out of its seven call
> centers. I get a severance package, which means that, if I get a job
quick,
> I might end up seeing this as a good thing, overall, especially as the
main
> reason I haven't left is that I couldn't afford to jump ship and have it
> not work out. However, in the short run, it means I am out of work as of
> Feb 21st.
>
> However, if anybody has Earthlink stock, this is good news for you.:)
>
> Anybody looking for an experienced computer tech geek specializing in
troubleshooting
> PCs, Windows, networking, and security (but without real hands-on
experience
> in the security department)?
> --
> Filksinger
> AKA David Nasset, Sr.
> Earthlink Technical Support
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22111
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:42:04 -0500
Subject: Oh My God
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Columbia
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22112
From: William Jennings"
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:06:23 -0600
Subject: Re: Oh My God
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Dallas-Ft. Worth TV station WFAA has a pair of disturbing videos. This is
very, very grave.
Will in Central Texas
"William J. Keaton" <wjake@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:3e3bdca6.0@news.sff.net...
> Columbia
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22113
From: William Jennings"
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:29:18 -0600
Subject: Columbia/Challenger
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"For the families of the seven, we cannot bear, as you do, the full impact
of this tragedy. But we feel the loss, and we're thinking about you so very
much. Your loved ones were daring and brave, and they had that special
grace, that special spirit that says, 'Give me a challenger and I'll meet it
with joy.' They had a hunger to explore the universe and discover its
truths.
They wished to serve, and they did. They served all of us....
We've grown used to wonders in this century. It's hard to dazzle us. But for
twenty-five years the United States space program has been doing just that.
We've grown used to the idea of space, and perhaps we forget that we've only
just begun. We're still pioneers. They, the members of the Challenger crew,
were pioneers....
We'll continue our quest in space. There will be more shuttle flights and
more shuttle crews and yes, more volunteers, more civilians, more teachers
in space. Nothing ends here; our hopes and our journeys continue....
We will never forget them, nor the last time we saw them, this morning, as
they prepared for their journey and waved good-bye and 'slipped the surly
bonds of earth' to 'touch the face of God.'"
Ronald Reagan
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22114
From: William Jennings"
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:42:00 -0600
Subject: They were ...
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Ilan Ramon, the first Israeli astronaut, and shuttle's commander, Rick
Husband, and Kalpana Chawla, William McCool and Michael Anderson, David
Brown, Laurel Clark.
They shall not grow old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22115
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 20:57:42 GMT
Subject: Re: Oh My God
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:42:04 -0500, "William J. Keaton"
<wjake@prodigy.net> wrote:
>Columbia
>
>
I just got on here with a NetZero connection; my cable modem's been
down for two days and may be down through the middle of next week.
This morning when we found out, I so wanted to connect -here-.
I have a sour feeling in my stomach that's not going away. 7 more
brave explorers from Earth.....
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22116
From: Catherine Hampton
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 15:05:29 -0800
Subject: Re: Oh My God
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:42:04 -0500, "William J. Keaton"
<wjake@prodigy.net> wrote:
>Columbia
:'(
--
Ariel (aka Catherine Hampton) <ariel@tempest.boxmail.com>
===========================================================
Home Page * <http://www.devsite.org/>
Human Rights Web * <http://www.hrweb.org/>
The SpamBouncer * <http://www.spambouncer.org/>
(Please use this address for replies -- the address in my header is a
spam trap.)
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22117
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 21:33:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Columbia/Challenger
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Yeah, I remember only too vividly.
How appropriate to use those words again to honor our brave
pioneers.
Ed J
On Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:29:18 -0600, "William Jennings"
<gwilliam@sff.net> wrote:
>"For the families of the seven, we cannot bear, as you do, the full impact
>of this tragedy. But we feel the loss, and we're thinking about you so very
>much. Your loved ones were daring and brave, and they had that special
>grace, that special spirit that says, 'Give me a challenger and I'll meet it
>with joy.' They had a hunger to explore the universe and discover its
>truths.
>
>They wished to serve, and they did. They served all of us....
>
>We've grown used to wonders in this century. It's hard to dazzle us. But for
>twenty-five years the United States space program has been doing just that.
>We've grown used to the idea of space, and perhaps we forget that we've only
>just begun. We're still pioneers. They, the members of the Challenger crew,
>were pioneers....
>
>We'll continue our quest in space. There will be more shuttle flights and
>more shuttle crews and yes, more volunteers, more civilians, more teachers
>in space. Nothing ends here; our hopes and our journeys continue....
>We will never forget them, nor the last time we saw them, this morning, as
>they prepared for their journey and waved good-bye and 'slipped the surly
>bonds of earth' to 'touch the face of God.'"
>
>Ronald Reagan
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22118
From: Filksinger"
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 22:06:50 -0800
Subject: Naughty or Nice?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I thought I'd throw this out for the list to look at. Go to Google, type in
any phone number, and get back name and address of any person or business in
the US.
Big privacy problem, or valuable tool for everyman? On the one hand, it is
just the phone book, but on the other, it massively simplifies tracking
people down, if you have a phone number.
So, which is it?
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22119
From: Filksinger"
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 00:35:11 -0800
Subject: Want the record companies to send you money?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
If you would like the record companies to give you money, go here:
The record companies have settled a lawsuit that they are price fixing. One
of the results is that any typical consumer, like you and me, can sign up at
the location below, and get $20, just by telling them you bought at least
one CD between Jan 1, 1990, and Dec 22, 2000.
http://www.musiccdsettlement.com.
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22120
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:16:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Want the record companies to send you money?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message
news:3e3e2bbd.0@news.sff.net...
> If you would like the record companies to give you money, go here:
>
> The record companies have settled a lawsuit that they are price fixing.
One
> of the results is that any typical consumer, like you and me, can sign up
at
> the location below, and get $20, just by telling them you bought at least
> one CD between Jan 1, 1990, and Dec 22, 2000.
>
Nobody will get a dime! The max you can get is $20. It will depend on the
number of claims filed. Plus, there is a provision in the agreement that
states that if the cash portion of the settlement falls below $5.00 per
claimant NO CASH will be distributed at all.
Don't spend it all in one place.
WJaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22121
From: Jarrett Lennon Kaufman"
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:43:46 -0800
Subject: Which Lazarus Long novel comes next?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I'm a Heinlein lover, but only recently have I been making real effort to
dig deep into his series. I read The Past Through Tomorrow very recently,
and great enjoyed the final novella. I had previous seen Lazarus Long in
Number of the Beast, which I'm guessing was the last book he appeared in.
I'd like to read all of the books he's in, though.
What order do his books take place in? First, I'm looking for whichever
book would immediately follow his story from The Past Through Tomorrow.
Then I'd love to have a list of each one in order after that so I can
continue.
Could anyone help me here? I've searched for sites, and most aren't
organized easily enough for me to figure it out. The bookstores don't have
enough of his books for me to piece it together properly. I'm sure if I
spent more time I could figure it out, but I thought someone might be able
to tell me faster, so I can purchase them on eBooks.com and have them ready
for me on my Pocket PC.
Thank you in advance,
Jarrett
--
________________
Web Site Designing
www.3xvision.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22122
From: Jane Davitt
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 14:39:27 -0500
Subject: Re: Which Lazarus Long novel comes next?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Jarrett Lennon Kaufman wrote:
> I'm a Heinlein lover, but only recently have I been making real effort to
> dig deep into his series. I read The Past Through Tomorrow very recently,
> and great enjoyed the final novella. I had previous seen Lazarus Long in
> Number of the Beast, which I'm guessing was the last book he appeared in.
> I'd like to read all of the books he's in, though.
>
> What order do his books take place in? First, I'm looking for whichever
> book would immediately follow his story from The Past Through Tomorrow.
> Then I'd love to have a list of each one in order after that so I can
> continue.
>
> Could anyone help me here? I've searched for sites, and most aren't
> organized easily enough for me to figure it out. The bookstores don't have
> enough of his books for me to piece it together properly. I'm sure if I
> spent more time I could figure it out, but I thought someone might be able
> to tell me faster, so I can purchase them on eBooks.com and have them ready
> for me on my Pocket PC.
>
> Thank you in advance,
>
> Jarrett
>
> --
>
>
> ________________
> Web Site Designing
> www.3xvision.com
>
>
Methuselah's Children is first and Libby is in a short story called Misfit.
Then LL's story continues in Time Enough For Love.
He guests in Number of the Beast and Cat Who Walks Through Walls.
Finally, we see the events of TEFL from a different POV as Maureen tells
her story in To Sail Beyond The Sunset.
Oh, and to make Cat Who Walks more understandable ( if that's possible
<g>) you might want to read The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress and Space
Family Stone aka The Rolling Stones.
Jane
--
My Buffy the Vampire Slayer fiction is archived at
http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=231516
and http://dotcreative.envy.nu/archive/al.html
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22123
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 22:50:34 GMT
Subject: Re: Naughty or Nice?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 22:06:50 -0800, "Filksinger"
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:
>I thought I'd throw this out for the list to look at. Go to Google, type in
>any phone number, and get back name and address of any person or business in
>the US.
Well, not mine. And I'm not unlisted. But then, I have a bogus
directory listing with no address in the phone book. ;)
>Big privacy problem, or valuable tool for everyman? On the one hand, it is
>just the phone book, but on the other, it massively simplifies tracking
>people down, if you have a phone number.
>
>So, which is it?
>--
The "metadirectory" looms closer everyday. Most people will say that
the conveniences outweigh the cost. Me, I remember "My Name is
Legion". <NG>
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22124
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 22:50:35 GMT
Subject: Re: Which Lazarus Long novel comes next?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Mon, 03 Feb 2003 14:39:27 -0500, Jane Davitt <jdavitt01@rogers.com>
wrote:
>Jane
>
>My Buffy the Vampire Slayer fiction is archived at
>http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=231516
>and http://dotcreative.envy.nu/archive/al.html
Hi Jane, glad to see you posting again. Someday I'll have to take a
look at your fanfic.... <G>
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22125
From: Jane Davitt
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 19:45:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Which Lazarus Long novel comes next?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
>
>
> Hi Jane, glad to see you posting again. Someday I'll have to take a
> look at your fanfic.... <G>
>
> JT
>
I can think of no better way to spend your time :-))
Jane
--
My Buffy the Vampire Slayer fiction is archived at
http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=231516
and http://dotcreative.envy.nu/archive/al.html
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22126
From: Catherine Hampton
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 19:21:23 -0800
Subject: Re: Naughty or Nice?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 22:06:50 -0800, "Filksinger"
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:
>I thought I'd throw this out for the list to look at. Go to Google, type in
>any phone number, and get back name and address of any person or business in
>the US.
This works only if you have ever published your phone number in a
phone company directory or on Usenet or a web site somewhere. I
checked. My home phonenumber, which I make public, is findable via
Google. My cell phone number, which is private, is not.
--
Ariel (aka Catherine Hampton) <ariel@tempest.boxmail.com>
===========================================================
Home Page * <http://www.devsite.org/>
Human Rights Web * <http://www.hrweb.org/>
The SpamBouncer * <http://www.spambouncer.org/>
(Please use this address for replies -- the address in my header is a
spam trap.)
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22127
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 00:54:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Which Lazarus Long novel comes next?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Jane Davitt" <jdavitt01@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:3E3F0D0E.9000104@rogers.com...
>
> >
> >
> > Hi Jane, glad to see you posting again. Someday I'll have to take a
> > look at your fanfic.... <G>
> >
> > JT
> >
>
> I can think of no better way to spend your time :-))
>
The only problem I have is the INCREDIBLE number of pop up ads from the
fanfiction site. Total turn off, I'm sorry to say.
WJaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22128
From: Jane Davitt
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 07:35:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Which Lazarus Long novel comes next?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
William J. Eaton wrote:
> "Jane Davitt" <jdavitt01@rogers.com> wrote in message
> news:3E3F0D0E.9000104@rogers.com...
>
>>>
>>>Hi Jane, glad to see you posting again. Someday I'll have to take a
>>>look at your fanfic.... <G>
>>>
>>>JT
>>>
>>
>>I can think of no better way to spend your time :-))
>>
>
>
> The only problem I have is the INCREDIBLE number of pop up ads from the
> fanfiction site. Total turn off, I'm sorry to say.
>
> WJaKe
>
>
They are a pain, yes, but once they've popped and you've deleted them,
they tend to stay away. If anyone's really interested, just go to
Googol; all my stories appeared first on the
alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer.creative newsgroup. I started posting there in
June 2002.
Jane
--
My Buffy the Vampire Slayer fiction is archived at
http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=231516
and http://dotcreative.envy.nu/archive/al.html
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22129
From: Dee"
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:59:24 -0600
Subject: Re: Which Lazarus Long novel comes next?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"JT" <JT@REM0VE.sff.net> wrote in message
news:3e3ef1a3.180575421@news.sff.net...
> Hi Jane, glad to see you posting again. Someday I'll have to take a
> look at your fanfic.... <G>
Do that, JT. She's really good!
--Dee
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22130
From: Jane Davitt
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 12:19:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Which Lazarus Long novel comes next?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Dee wrote:
> "JT" <JT@REM0VE.sff.net> wrote in message
> news:3e3ef1a3.180575421@news.sff.net...
>
>
>>Hi Jane, glad to see you posting again. Someday I'll have to take a
>>look at your fanfic.... <G>
>
>
> Do that, JT. She's really good!
>
> --Dee
>
>
<blush> Thank you, Dee!
Jane
--
My Buffy the Vampire Slayer fiction is archived at
http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=231516
and http://dotcreative.envy.nu/archive/al.html
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22131
From: filksinger@earthling.net
Date: 4 Feb 2003 17:31:01 GMT
Subject: Re: Want the record companies to send you money?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT wrote:
> Nobody will get a dime!
Wanna bet? I'll bet you $20. If I win, I get $20 from you, if you win, you
get $20, minus whatever I do win.
Deal?
--
Filksinger
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22132
From: filksinger@earthling.net
Date: 4 Feb 2003 22:06:09 GMT
Subject: Re: Naughty or Nice?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT wrote:
************
The "metadirectory" looms closer everyday. Most people will say that
the conveniences outweigh the cost. Me, I remember "My Name is
Legion".
************
Name one threat to privacy or individuality that this feature causes that
didn't already exist.
BTW, I don't remember "My Name is Legion", though the title is suggestive.
--
Filksinger
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22133
From: David Wright"
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 18:43:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Naughty or Nice?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message news:3e403951.0@news.sff.net...
> JT wrote:
> ************
> The "metadirectory" looms closer everyday. Most people will say that
> the conveniences outweigh the cost. Me, I remember "My Name is
> Legion".
> ************
>
> Name one threat to privacy or individuality that this feature causes that
> didn't already exist.
>
> BTW, I don't remember "My Name is Legion", though the title is suggestive.
> --
I believe that the original quote is from the Bible and referred to a gaggle
of demons.
In addition, there was a short story by Richard Matheson? of that name which
was made into two movies, the earlier one with Vincent Price and the later
one called 'The Omega Man' with Charlton Heston.
--
David Wright
http://www.alltel.net/~dwrighsr/index.html
Now is the best time to join us in The Heinlein Society
http://heinleinsociety.org/membership.html
http://heinleinsociety.org/join.html
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22134
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 00:41:43 GMT
Subject: Re: Naughty or Nice?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On 4 Feb 2003 22:06:09 GMT, filksinger@earthling.net wrote:
>JT wrote:
>************
>The "metadirectory" looms closer everyday. Most people will say that
>the conveniences outweigh the cost. Me, I remember "My Name is
>Legion".
>************
>
>Name one threat to privacy or individuality that this feature causes that
>didn't already exist.
I'm not actually arguing. But I remember the days when to get this
kind of thing you had to have access to the phone books from different
regions and look it up manually. It was significantly more effort for
the investigator and not something you took on casually.
Now we "google" our ex-girlfriends to see what's out there in a minute
or two. (I admit it. <EG>)
Me, I guard against this kind of thing more than the average person,
but I still know that means it would take 10 minutes instead of 5 to
get my life story. <NG>
>BTW, I don't remember "My Name is Legion", though the title is suggestive.
I was referring to the Roger Zelazny novel. Basically, it's about a
'superagent' who is able to live outside of the world-wide net because
he was part of the agency that oversaw all the data entry. He destroys
his file, and then "drops out" while knowing about backdoors to data.
I'm grossly oversimplifying and time has dimmed the details, but I
remember it was a good read. And I kept the book, which a good
indication of how much I liked it. (Most get donated, swapped, or
traded for credit at used bookstores.)
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22135
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 00:41:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Want the record companies to send you money?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On 4 Feb 2003 17:31:01 GMT, filksinger@earthling.net wrote:
>JT wrote:
>
>> Nobody will get a dime!
>
>Wanna bet? I'll bet you $20. If I win, I get $20 from you, if you win, you
>get $20, minus whatever I do win.
>
>Deal?
>--
>Filksinger
I didn't write that! WJaKe did. And I didn't post about it here
because I wanted $20, not $5. <selfish grin>
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22136
From: Filksinger"
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 19:28:24 -0800
Subject: Re: Want the record companies to send you money?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT <JT@REM0VE.sff.net> wrote:
<snip>
> I didn't write that! WJaKe did. And I didn't post about it here
> because I wanted $20, not $5. <selfish grin>
>
> JT
Sorry. Manual attributions from the website can sometimes be problematic,
especially when I am working and replying simultaneously.
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22137
From: djinn
Date: 5 Feb 2003 03:52:06 GMT
Subject: Re: Which Lazarus Long novel comes next?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"William J. Keaton" <wjake@prodigy.net> wrote in
news:3e3f559d.0@news.sff.net:
>
> The only problem I have is the INCREDIBLE number of pop up ads from the
> fanfiction site. Total turn off, I'm sorry to say.
>
> WJaKe
>
>
Download Popup Killer and you're set.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22138
From: djinn
Date: 5 Feb 2003 03:52:48 GMT
Subject: Re: Which Lazarus Long novel comes next?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Jane Davitt <jdavitt01@rogers.com> wrote in
news:3E3FF617.9080303@rogers.com:
>
> <blush> Thank you, Dee!
>
> Jane
>
I agree with Dee :)
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22139
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 01:20:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Which Lazarus Long novel comes next?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"djinn" <qinjingyou@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > The only problem I have is the INCREDIBLE number of pop up ads from the
> > fanfiction site. Total turn off, I'm sorry to say.
> >
> > WJaKe
> >
> >
> Download Popup Killer and you're set.
Yeah, maybe it's time for a new thread on Popup Killers and Spam Blockers,
see what the gang around here is using these days.
WjaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22140
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 01:34:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Want the record companies to send you money?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message news:3e3ff8d5.0@news.sff.net...
> JT didn't write:
>
> > Nobody will get a dime!
>
'Cause your ol' buddy WJaKe did.
> Wanna bet? I'll bet you $20. If I win, I get $20 from you, if you win, you
> get $20, minus whatever I do win.
>
> Deal?
It is tempting. Because I really do expect the minimum payout provisions to
kick in, and then some. My guess is that the best you can hope for is a few
$$ off coupons.
WJaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22141
From: Jane Davitt
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 10:37:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Which Lazarus Long novel comes next?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
djinn wrote:
> Jane Davitt <jdavitt01@rogers.com> wrote in
> news:3E3FF617.9080303@rogers.com:
>
>
>
>><blush> Thank you, Dee!
>>
>>Jane
>>
>
>
> I agree with Dee :)
Then thank you, too :-)
Jane
--
My Buffy the Vampire Slayer fiction is archived at
http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=231516
and http://dotcreative.envy.nu/archive/al.html
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22142
From: Filksinger"
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 17:01:12 -0800
Subject: Re: Want the record companies to send you money?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
William J. Keaton <wjake@prodigy.net> wrote:
> It is tempting. Because I really do expect the minimum payout
> provisions to kick in, and then some. My guess is that the best you
> can hope for is a few $$ off coupons.
Pleeeeeeeese?<b-eil>*
*("big-eyed innocent look")
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22143
From: Bob
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 13:40:39 -0800
Subject: Re: Naughty or Nice?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Filksinger wrote:
> I thought I'd throw this out for the list to look at. Go to Google, type in
> any phone number, and get back name and address of any person or business in
> the US.
>
> Big privacy problem, or valuable tool for everyman? On the one hand, it is
> just the phone book, but on the other, it massively simplifies tracking
> people down, if you have a phone number.
>
> So, which is it?
> --
> Filksinger
> AKA David Nasset, Sr.
> Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
>
>
I'm inclined to think of it as a positive. No new information is being
released; existing info is simply being used more efficiently.
Bob
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22144
From: filksinger@earthling.net
Date: 7 Feb 2003 21:51:12 GMT
Subject: Spam and pop-ups
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
It was requested that people tell what they are using for spam and pop-up
filters. Here's what I use at this time.
For spam, I use POPFile v 0.18.0 (http://popfile.sourceforge.net/). This
program doesn't stop spam at all, at first. In fact, it has no option to
stop anything at all. Instead, it learns using naive bayesean logic.
You create "buckets", labelled things like "spam", "work", and "porn", anything
you want, and then tell the filter which emails go into which bucket. Over
time, it learns to sort your emails into the correct buckets with a fairly
high degree of accuracy. Then it labels the emails via either the subject
line or X-headers, and your email client sorts them using mailing rules.
For Pop-up ads, I use the Earthlink Pop-up blocker. Not much help to you,
unless you are an Earthlink customer.
For a truly flexible pop-up blocker, a program that goes far beyond pop-up
blocking, try Proxomotron (http://www.proxomitron.org). This can be used
to change _any_ feature on a web page on the fly, by high-speed text editing
to replace, say, a banner ad command with text, so you never see the add.
Very powerful, flexible, and, if you don't stray too far from the built-in
filters.
--
Filksinger
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22145
From: Gordon G. Sollars
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 00:14:23 -0500
Subject: Re: Spam and pop-ups
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
In article <3e442a50.0@news.sff.net>, filksinger@earthling.net says...
> It was requested that people tell what they are using for spam and pop-up
> filters. Here's what I use at this time.
>
> For spam, I use POPFile v 0.18.0 (http://popfile.sourceforge.net/). This
> program doesn't stop spam at all, at first. In fact, it has no option to
> stop anything at all. Instead, it learns using naive bayesean logic.
>
> You create "buckets", labelled things like "spam", "work", and "porn", anything
> you want, and then tell the filter which emails go into which bucket. Over
> time, it learns to sort your emails into the correct buckets with a fairly
> high degree of accuracy. Then it labels the emails via either the subject
> line or X-headers, and your email client sorts them using mailing rules.
Interesting. I have been using Mailwasher. I enjoy being able to
bounce spam, but much spam isn't bouncible.
> For Pop-up ads, I use the Earthlink Pop-up blocker. Not much help to you,
> unless you are an Earthlink customer.
>
> For a truly flexible pop-up blocker, a program that goes far beyond pop-up
> blocking, try Proxomotron (http://www.proxomitron.org). This can be used
> to change _any_ feature on a web page on the fly, by high-speed text editing
> to replace, say, a banner ad command with text, so you never see the add.
Cool. I have just been using CookieCop.
--
Gordon Sollars
gsollars@pobox.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22146
From: Bob
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 01:29:29 -0800
Subject: Re: Spam and pop-ups
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I have no idea how; but I have managed to avoid any significant problems
with spam. I use fake characters in my email address here and in general
avoid giving out my email address when possible, and I only get a spam
message every few days.
I use mozilla to browse. It's standards compliant, fast, efficient,
curteous (won't stay in memory unless you let it), and has the ability
to block pop-ups built into it. It also has tabbed browsing, which is
astonishingly cool. www.mozilla.org It's 100% free too, of course.
Bob
BTW in case anyone cares I finished the first of the physics series at
Cal Poly and start modern physics (the fun stuff) next quarter!
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22147
From: SpaceCadet
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 07:35:31 -0600
Subject: Re: Spam and pop-ups
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Bob,
Congratulations on finishing general physics. Modern
Physics is really cool, so have fun.
Carol
---------
Bob wrote:
> I have no idea how; but I have managed to avoid any significant problems
> with spam. I use fake characters in my email address here and in general
> avoid giving out my email address when possible, and I only get a spam
> message every few days.
>
> I use mozilla to browse. It's standards compliant, fast, efficient,
> curteous (won't stay in memory unless you let it), and has the ability
> to block pop-ups built into it. It also has tabbed browsing, which is
> astonishingly cool. www.mozilla.org It's 100% free too, of course.
> Bob
>
> BTW in case anyone cares I finished the first of the physics series at
> Cal Poly and start modern physics (the fun stuff) next quarter!
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22148
From: djinn
Date: 9 Feb 2003 18:27:54 GMT
Subject: Re: Spam and pop-ups
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
filksinger@earthling.net wrote in news:3e442a50.0@news.sff.net:
> It was requested that people tell what they are using for spam and
> pop-up filters. Here's what I use at this time.
>
I use PopUpKiller,
http://software.xfx.net/utilities/popupkiller/tsguide/index.html
you have to add popups to it, but after a while you see very few new ones.
AdAware to get rid of spyware. It gets rid of Gator, which can be a real
PITA
Spoofed email and Netmail accounts to avoid spam.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22149
From: Charles Graft
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 04:34:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Naughty or Nice?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
All--
This service (called reverse lookup) has been available on many web
sites for years. I typically use >anywho.com< but have used others.
--
<<Big Charlie>>
"Democracy is a form of worship. It is the worship of jackals by
jackasses." -- H. L. Menken
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22150
From: anonymous@sff.net (Anonymous Visitor)
Date: 10 Feb 2003 17:26:39 GMT
Subject: Re: Spam and pop-ups
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Filksinger wrote:
"Very powerful, flexible, and, if you don't stray too far from the built-in
filters."
Of course, that should read, "Very powerful, flexible, and, if you don't
stray too far from the built-in filters, fairly easy to use."
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22151
From: filksinger@earthling.net
Date: 10 Feb 2003 19:30:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Spam and pop-ups
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I almost forgot. Here's some basic tips for avoiding spam.
1. Use a really unusual email address. Spammers like to take dictionary
lists of possible names, and try a "shotgun" approach, but it only works
with big ISPs. They take some of the names (say, "john", "fred", and "filksinger"),
then send them to, for example, Earthlink, with a variety of likely alternate
versions (i.e. "john242@earthlink.net, fredmn@earthlink.net, and filksinger22@earthlink.net).
They then take the email addresses that work, and keep sending them spam.
To avoid this problem, pick names with unusual characters in them, like
"." and "_", or use names that are very strange (filksinger was one, until
I got on their lists), or ones where the number is in front of the name
(136john is much safer than john136). If nothing else works, try a small
ISP, where the shotgun technique nets too few people to make it worthwhile.
2. Use unique email addresses for spam. Some people create "throw-away"
addresses. For example, Earthlink allows me to have up to 8 email addresses,
so I could create "filkboy121@earthlink.net", then throw it away when it
started getting too much spam.
Now, here's my secret. I wish I had started using this years ago, but years
ago it didn't exist.
Go to www.spammotel.com and sign up for a free Spam Motel account. Now,
if you visit, say, www.wearespammers.com, and they ask for your email address,
you go to Spam Motel, and Spam Motel will give you an email address to give
them (like AYDGAKNYD@spammotel.com). Whenever email is sent to that address,
it is forwarded to you, with special and useful information and a reply
address that routes back through Spam Motel.
So, if I sign up for www.wearespammers.com free deals, when they sell my
address, I will see what email address the spam is being sent to (no matter
what the spammer does), who I gave the original address to, automatically
can reply without revealing my address, and can set a filter at Spam Motel
to either reject all messages, let everything through, or filter on "From"
field, so that, if I need www.wearespammers.com to get ahold of me, they
still can, but all other messages from their "associates" are bounced.
Give it a whirl.
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22152
From: Eli Hestermann
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 14:34:40 -0500
Subject: job news
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Starting this fall, I will be the new professor of cell biology at
Furman University, in Greenville, SC.
Further details are available at sff.people.eli-hestermann
--
Eli V. Hestermann
Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu
"Vita brevis est, ars longa." -Seneca
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22153
From: filksinger@earthling.net
Date: 10 Feb 2003 19:31:22 GMT
Subject: Re: job news
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Congratulations!
--
Filksinger
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22154
From: David Wright"
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 17:40:17 -0500
Subject: Re: job news
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Eli Hestermann <Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu> wrote in message
news:3E47FED0.D9A1A532@dfci.harvard.edu...
> Starting this fall, I will be the new professor of cell biology at
> Furman University, in Greenville, SC.
>
> Further details are available at sff.people.eli-hestermann
>
Congratulations, and welcome to the South. Furman was one of the colleges
that my son was considering back in the early 90s.
--
David Wright
http://www.alltel.net/~dwrighsr/index.html
Now is the best time to join us in The Heinlein Society
http://heinleinsociety.org/membership.html
http://heinleinsociety.org/join.html
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22155
From: noone"
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 01:04:14 -0500
Subject: Re: job news
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
congratulation and best luck eli
"gunner"
"Eli Hestermann" <Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu> wrote in message
news:3E47FED0.D9A1A532@dfci.harvard.edu...
> Starting this fall, I will be the new professor of cell biology at
> Furman University, in Greenville, SC.
>
> Further details are available at sff.people.eli-hestermann
>
> --
> Eli V. Hestermann
> Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu
> "Vita brevis est, ars longa." -Seneca
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22156
From: Eli Hestermann
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 08:57:10 -0500
Subject: Re: job news
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
David Wright wrote:
> Eli Hestermann <Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu> wrote in message
> news:3E47FED0.D9A1A532@dfci.harvard.edu...
> > Starting this fall, I will be the new professor of cell biology at
> > Furman University, in Greenville, SC.
> >
> > Further details are available at sff.people.eli-hestermann
> >
> Congratulations, and welcome to the South. Furman was one of the colleges
> that my son was considering back in the early 90s.
This will be my first experience of living in the South. I will have the
complete set of NCAA regions, though. [g]
West-CO, Midwest-IN, East-MA, Southeast-SC
--
Eli V. Hestermann
Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu
"Vita brevis est, ars longa." -Seneca
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22157
From: SpaceCadet
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 09:08:03 -0600
Subject: Re: job news
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
My biggest cultural surprise when I moved to Texas is that
they're still upset about losing the Civil War. I am
telling the truth. So be aware that the "carpetbagger"
comments are not quite jokes, and realize that when they
don't vote Republican, it may really be because "that's the
party of Lincoln." Really. (To me this makes for a strange
sort of Democrat.)
On the plus side, Southerners tend not to be as
self-conscious as Yankees. As such, they are capable of a
fun kind of joyful rowdy abandon that most Yankees can't
even imagine.
"You know you're a redneck if... one of your relatives has
died after yelling, "Hey everybody, watch this!"
Carol
========
Eli Hestermann wrote:
> David Wright wrote:
>
>
>>Eli Hestermann <Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu> wrote in message
>>news:3E47FED0.D9A1A532@dfci.harvard.edu...
>>
>>>Starting this fall, I will be the new professor of cell biology at
>>>Furman University, in Greenville, SC.
>>>
>>>Further details are available at sff.people.eli-hestermann
>>>
>>
>>Congratulations, and welcome to the South. Furman was one of the colleges
>>that my son was considering back in the early 90s.
>
>
> This will be my first experience of living in the South. I will have the
> complete set of NCAA regions, though. [g]
>
> West-CO, Midwest-IN, East-MA, Southeast-SC
>
> --
> Eli V. Hestermann
> Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu
> "Vita brevis est, ars longa." -Seneca
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22158
From: Eli Hestermann
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 11:00:35 -0500
Subject: Re: job news
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Thanks for the pointers, Carol.
I think people in SC have forgiven Republicans for Lincoln: this is the
state that kept sending Strom Thurmond back to the Senate.
More laid back and less self-conscious I can certainly handle. We had a
hard time adjusting to the pace when we moved to MA from the midwest.
--
Eli V. Hestermann
Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu
"Vita brevis est, ars longa." -Seneca
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22159
From: Catherine Hampton
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 19:05:54 -0800
Subject: Re: job news
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 14:34:40 -0500, Eli Hestermann
<Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu> wrote:
>Starting this fall, I will be the new professor of cell biology at
>Furman University, in Greenville, SC.
Congratuations! :)
--
Ariel (aka Catherine Hampton) <ariel@tempest.boxmail.com>
===========================================================
Home Page * <http://www.devsite.org/>
Human Rights Web * <http://www.hrweb.org/>
The SpamBouncer * <http://www.spambouncer.org/>
(Please use this address for replies -- the address in my header is a
spam trap.)
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22160
From: fader555@aol.com (Fader)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 04:57:43 GMT
Subject: Re: job news
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 14:34:40 -0500, Eli Hestermann
<Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu> wrote:
>Starting this fall, I will be the new professor of cell biology at
>Furman University, in Greenville, SC.
>
Congratulations, may you tenure.
Fader
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22161
From: Eli Hestermann
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:16:44 -0500
Subject: Re: job news
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Thanks. there's always another hoop to jump through.
Fader wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 14:34:40 -0500, Eli Hestermann
> <Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu> wrote:
>
> >Starting this fall, I will be the new professor of cell biology at
> >Furman University, in Greenville, SC.
> >
> Congratulations, may you tenure.
>
> Fader
--
Eli V. Hestermann
Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu
"Vita brevis est, ars longa." -Seneca
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22162
From: John Bartley K7AAY
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:08:28 -0800
Subject: Re: job news
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 14:34:40 -0500, Eli Hestermann
<Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu> wrote:
>Starting this fall, I will be the new professor of cell biology at
>Furman University, in Greenville, SC.
>
>Further details are available at sff.people.eli-hestermann
Congratulations.
BTW, the barbeque there is funny (vinegar/mustard sauce), and mostly
traif, should you care. You Have Been Warned.
..
--
John Bartley, K7AAY, telcom admin, PDX-OR - views mine.
The world is run by those who show up. VOTE. ASK. AGITATE.
http://palmwireless.cjb.net Wireless FAQ for PalmOS
http://celdata.cjb.net Handheld's Cellular Data FAQ
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22163
From: Eli Hestermann
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:08:04 -0500
Subject: Re: job news
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
John Bartley K7AAY wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 14:34:40 -0500, Eli Hestermann
> <Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu> wrote:
>
> >Starting this fall, I will be the new professor of cell biology at
> >Furman University, in Greenville, SC.
> >
> >Further details are available at sff.people.eli-hestermann
>
> Congratulations.
> BTW, the barbeque there is funny (vinegar/mustard sauce), and mostly
> traif, should you care. You Have Been Warned.
Thanks for the heads up.
Regional variations in barbeque are fascinating, and I'm Lutheran and a
scientist, so of course I must experiment. [g]
--
Eli V. Hestermann
Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu
"Vita brevis est, ars longa." -Seneca
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22164
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:31:20 -0500
Subject: Re: job news
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Eli: Congratulations!
Good Luck with your new position at Furman U.
Ed J
On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 14:34:40 -0500, Eli Hestermann
<Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu> wrote:
>Starting this fall, I will be the new professor of cell biology at
>Furman University, in Greenville, SC.
>
>Further details are available at sff.people.eli-hestermann
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22165
From: John Paul Vrolyk
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:46:12 -0500
Subject: It's a girl!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
The ultrasound examination today indicated that Jack's new sibling
expected in June will be a sister. Mama Les and the rest of the
family are all doing well.
BTW, congrats on the job, Eli.
(Now if I could only find a job myself, life would be nigh perfect.)
--
John Paul Vrolyk
jp@vrolyk.org
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22166
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 01:29:56 GMT
Subject: Re: It's a girl!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:46:12 -0500, John Paul Vrolyk <jp@vrolyk.org>
wrote:
>The ultrasound examination today indicated that Jack's new sibling
>expected in June will be a sister. Mama Les and the rest of the
>family are all doing well.
>
If you name her Jill, I may not be responsible for any puns that come
after. ;) Seriously, though, that's great news. I saw the subject
heading and thought "She's not DUE yet, what is up". Glad it wasn't
anything else!
We need to get off our butts and plan a weekend to come down & see you
all. It's been far too long.
best to the clan,
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22167
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 01:29:57 GMT
Subject: ST movie sequel
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-film.html?2003-02/10/11.15.film
12:00pm ET, 10-February-03
Troopers Sequel To Shoot
A sequel to 1997's Starship Troopers will begin filming in Los Angeles
in May, Production Weekly reported. Phil Tippett, who supervised
visual effects for the first Starship Troopers, will direct the
sequel, the publication reported.
Paul Verhoeven helmed the original movie, which was based on Robert
Heinlein's classic SF novel. Edward Neumeier will return to script the
sequel, about a small group of soldiers who find themselves taking
refuge in an abandoned outpost as they attempt to fight the bugs, not
realizing that a much graver danger is infiltrating their unit, the
publication reported.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22168
From: fader555@aol.com (Fader)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:41:15 GMT
Subject: Re: It's a girl!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:46:12 -0500, John Paul Vrolyk <jp@vrolyk.org>
wrote:
>The ultrasound examination today indicated that Jack's new sibling
>expected in June will be a sister. Mama Les and the rest of the
>family are all doing well.
>
Jack's getting a sister, that's nice.
Fader
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22169
From: Eli Hestermann
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:31:32 -0500
Subject: Re: It's a girl!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:46:12 -0500, John Paul Vrolyk <jp@vrolyk.org>
> wrote:
>
> >The ultrasound examination today indicated that Jack's new sibling
> >expected in June will be a sister. Mama Les and the rest of the
> >family are all doing well.
> >
>
> If you name her Jill, I may not be responsible for any puns that come
> after. ;)
My thought too!
Congrats, JP and Les.
--
Eli V. Hestermann
Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu
"Vita brevis est, ars longa." -Seneca
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22170
From: Jane Davitt
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:55:56 -0500
Subject: web page
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Just thought I'd mention that,as you can see in my sig, I have a web
page. Yay! Very basic; no fancy art work or such (give me time!) but all
my completed fics are there, plus some Heinlein related non fiction.
It took ages and so many people bailed me out; who said pages were easy?
Nearly gave me a nervous breakdown as the frustration mounted.
(And someone's pointed out that I need links back to the home page on
the longer fics; I'll do it when my head isn't exploding. Plus I have a
story to write. Priorities, people! Sophie's in danger, Peter's in peril
and Hester's on a horse. They need me to stay focused <g>)
Jane
--
My Buffy the Vampire Slayer fiction is archived at
http://members.rogers.com/jdavitt01/index.html
http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=231516
and http://dotcreative.envy.nu/archive/al.html
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22171
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 00:54:15 -0500
Subject: Re: ST movie sequel
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT: Another ST movie! Have they no shame? If they could just
leave Heinlein's name out of it.
BTW: How much snow did you get in Maryland? I may be looking at
20 inches of snow depth to remove from my driveway tomorrow, not
counting drifts . You must have gotten nearly as much.
Ed J (Mt. Holly, NJ)
On Thu, 13 Feb 2003 01:29:57 GMT, JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT) wrote:
>http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-film.html?2003-02/10/11.15.film
>
>12:00pm ET, 10-February-03
>
> Troopers Sequel To Shoot
>
>A sequel to 1997's Starship Troopers will begin filming in Los Angeles
>in May, Production Weekly reported. Phil Tippett, who supervised
>visual effects for the first Starship Troopers, will direct the
>sequel, the publication reported.
>
>Paul Verhoeven helmed the original movie, which was based on Robert
>Heinlein's classic SF novel. Edward Neumeier will return to script the
>sequel, about a small group of soldiers who find themselves taking
>refuge in an abandoned outpost as they attempt to fight the bugs, not
>realizing that a much graver danger is infiltrating their unit, the
>publication reported.
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22172
From: Bill Dauphin
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:00:19 -0500
Subject: Blizzard! (was Re: ST movie sequel)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On 2/17/03 12:54 AM, in article e1u05vcftfv9c5rd6jl1q55ibbkn4djpg6@4ax.com,
"Ed Johnson" <eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net> wrote:
>BTW: How much snow did you get in Maryland? I may be looking at
> 20 inches of snow depth to remove from my driveway tomorrow, not
> counting drifts . You must have gotten nearly as much.
>
Over a foot so far here (4:00 pm Monday) in central CT, and we're only about
halfway through the storm.
Just got caught up... Hadn't even read the Forum since last fall... Still
digesting news re Ginny Heinlein and Eli's new post... Will post more
later...
-JovBill
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22173
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:22:47 GMT
Subject: Re: Blizzard! (was Re: ST movie sequel)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:00:19 -0500, Bill Dauphin
<dauphinb@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>On 2/17/03 12:54 AM, in article e1u05vcftfv9c5rd6jl1q55ibbkn4djpg6@4ax.com,
>"Ed Johnson" <eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net> wrote:
>
>>BTW: How much snow did you get in Maryland? I may be looking at
>> 20 inches of snow depth to remove from my driveway tomorrow, not
>> counting drifts . You must have gotten nearly as much.
>>
>
>Over a foot so far here (4:00 pm Monday) in central CT, and we're only about
>halfway through the storm.
>
>Just got caught up... Hadn't even read the Forum since last fall... Still
>digesting news re Ginny Heinlein and Eli's new post... Will post more
>later...
>
>-JovBill
Hi Bill.....
We got almost 27 inches, that's on top of the 6 we had last week.
We're OK around the house...one of my neighbors has a snowblower and
has been doing the walk, but it's been hard just to keep up on the
driveway and the side!
The scary part is, the road's not clear at all. My neighbor's car is
completely buried (I moved both of mine into the driveway, so I'm
fine) and I think we'll be lucky to get one pass down the middle once
they get to us. I have no idea where they are going to move the snow
TO. We have a lot of cars on my road so the plow isn't going to be
able to make a clean run at all.
Even if they don't call off my work tomorrow, I'll be at home
shovelling. :(
http://www.sff.net/people/HF/snowman.jpg (We made the snowman last
week)
http://www.sff.net/people/HF/break.jpg (Notice the mailbox...barely)
http://www.sff.net/people/HF/front.jpg (Can't clear a full path to the
driveway anymore--gave up!)
Stay warm and dry, east-coasters!
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22174
From: John Paul Vrolyk
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:01:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Blizzard! (was Re: ST movie sequel)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Bill Dauphin wrote:
> Over a foot so far here (4:00 pm Monday) in central CT, and we're only about
> halfway through the storm.
We had well over a foot of snow here in Virginia, too. I haven't
measured exact amounts, although we didn't get as much as shown in
JT's pictures.
I don't know about elsewhere, but, although it was an unusually heavy
snowfall, what we did not have here was a "blizzard" or even a "winter
storm". It was just a bunch of snow, falling slowly but steadily for
quite a while. No high winds, decent visibility even when the snowfall
was heaviest, temperatures cool but not frigid. Were there blizzard
conditions elsewhere?
--
John Paul Vrolyk
jp@vrolyk.org
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22175
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 14:39:09 GMT
Subject: Re: Blizzard! (was Re: ST movie sequel)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:01:13 -0500, John Paul Vrolyk <jp@vrolyk.org>
wrote:
>I don't know about elsewhere, but, although it was an unusually heavy
>snowfall, what we did not have here was a "blizzard" or even a "winter
>storm". It was just a bunch of snow, falling slowly but steadily for
>quite a while. No high winds, decent visibility even when the snowfall
>was heaviest, temperatures cool but not frigid. Were there blizzard
>conditions elsewhere?
>
The wind was pretty darn annoying here. When we had around a foot I
was out in it and the wind was bad. As evidenced by the drift up
against my front door yesterday. :(
And I woke up to another inch or so on the car. Gonna wait another
hour or so before I go out--it's supposed to stop soon.
But if you believe the news hype I should probably just stick my head
under the covers and come out in the spring. :)
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22176
From: Eli Hestermann
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 14:22:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Blizzard! (was Re: ST movie sequel)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
John Paul Vrolyk wrote:
> I don't know about elsewhere, but, although it was an unusually heavy
> snowfall, what we did not have here was a "blizzard" or even a "winter
> storm". It was just a bunch of snow, falling slowly but steadily for
> quite a while. No high winds, decent visibility even when the snowfall
> was heaviest, temperatures cool but not frigid. Were there blizzard
> conditions elsewhere?
We had blizzard conditions here. We got about 20 inches of snow; Boston reports
27.5, which is a record for a 24-hour period. The cars are finally dug out,
although I don't think we're going anywhere today.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22177
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 11:03:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Blizzard! (was Re: ST movie sequel)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
About 20 inches here, I dug my car out 4 times Sunday and Monday. I still
have one car buried behind a huge snowbank. But I can still get to work
(groan!) and have a shovel-width clear path from the doors of the house to
the street, so I'm OK.
I left Wisconsin for this?
WJaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22178
From: James R. Cunningham"
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 12:10:05 -0800
Subject: Snowy update
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Snowy has become a lapcat. Very unlike Snowy. Ginny would be
flabbergasted. She commented repeatedly that he wasn't a lapcat. I
think he misses her.
I know I do. For years she was always available at the other end of the
phone, or after a few computer keystrokes. She reminded me of my
grandmother, and I don't think I'm going to feel closure till after we
get her ashes spread.
All the best,
JimC
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22179
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 20:20:59 GMT
Subject: Re: Blizzard! (was Re: ST movie sequel)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 11:03:11 -0500, "William J. Keaton"
<wjake@prodigy.net> wrote:
>About 20 inches here, I dug my car out 4 times Sunday and Monday. I still
>have one car buried behind a huge snowbank. But I can still get to work
>(groan!) and have a shovel-width clear path from the doors of the house to
>the street, so I'm OK.
>
>I left Wisconsin for this?
>
>WJaKe
I was thinking yesterday that I apparently didn't move far -enough-
south. <G>
With Cabin Fever approaching epic proportions, we finally made it out
early this afternoon. Went to BJs & a local supermarket for the
regular shopping delayed a few days.
I've got a huge pile of snow in front of my house that the mail
carrier is going to complain about next week (the mailbox is clear but
he's going to have to back up and go around the pile in front), but
it's partly the cause of the road crew that came by this morning. I
have to say I was really impressed. We have a solid path down to bare
road, and I didn't have to re-shovel much.
Work was open normally today, but I (and I know thousands of others)
called in. They didn't start plowing until about 8:45 a.m. this
morning.
Hope you all are doing as well or better!
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22180
From: noone"
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 00:46:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Blizzard! (was Re: ST movie sequel)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
we got a fair share of that up here in vermont but my little s-10 blazer
just grunted and did what it does, no problem.
"gunner"
--------------------------
"JT" <JT@REM0VE.sff.net> wrote in message
news:3e53e43b.177582843@news.sff.net...
> On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 11:03:11 -0500, "William J. Keaton"
> <wjake@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> >About 20 inches here, I dug my car out 4 times Sunday and Monday. I still
> >have one car buried behind a huge snowbank. But I can still get to work
> >(groan!) and have a shovel-width clear path from the doors of the house
to
> >the street, so I'm OK.
> >
> >I left Wisconsin for this?
> >
> >WJaKe
> I was thinking yesterday that I apparently didn't move far -enough-
> south. <G>
>
> With Cabin Fever approaching epic proportions, we finally made it out
> early this afternoon. Went to BJs & a local supermarket for the
> regular shopping delayed a few days.
>
> I've got a huge pile of snow in front of my house that the mail
> carrier is going to complain about next week (the mailbox is clear but
> he's going to have to back up and go around the pile in front), but
> it's partly the cause of the road crew that came by this morning. I
> have to say I was really impressed. We have a solid path down to bare
> road, and I didn't have to re-shovel much.
>
> Work was open normally today, but I (and I know thousands of others)
> called in. They didn't start plowing until about 8:45 a.m. this
> morning.
>
> Hope you all are doing as well or better!
>
> JT
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22181
From: debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek Rule)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 22:01:43 GMT
Subject: Re: Snowy update
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
>Snowy has become a lapcat. Very unlike Snowy. Ginny would be
>flabbergasted. She commented repeatedly that he wasn't a lapcat. I
>think he misses her.
I've noticed that with my cats, too. When they're feeling insecure
or unhappy they turn into lap cats.
Deb (D.A. Houdek)
http://www.dahoudek.com
http://www.robertaheinlein.com
http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22182
From: debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek Rule)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 22:01:43 GMT
Subject: Capt Scott Speicher
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I've added a page to our Heinlein site in honor of Captain Michael
Scott Speicher, an American Navy pilot lost in Iraq in 1991. His
status is officially "Missing/Captured." This is one of our people who
was left behind, and he should not have been. "Men are not potatoes."
Please visit the page and follow the links to sign the petition and
follow the info to contact gov't officials about Capt. Speicher.
http://www.robertaheinlein.com/tributes/scottspeicher.htm
Deb (D.A. Houdek)
http://www.dahoudek.com
http://www.robertaheinlein.com
http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22183
From: Filksinger"
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 02:37:05 -0800
Subject: Peppercoins
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
It appears that someone may have solved the problem of micropayments on the
Internet.
The problem is that a credit card transaction has a two part price, a
percentage and a fixed price. For immediate purchases, the fixed price is
too high for any transaction under about five dollars. Thus, if you have
something worth, say, fifty cents, you get to either give it away for free,
sell to subscribers who are willing to buy a lot of it, or you can't
distributed it on the Internet at all.
In come Peppercoins. Peppercoins are created by a cryptographic algorythm
which creates one-use coins whose value _averages_ some small amount, such
as fifty cents, but whose actual value is either nothing, or a much larger
amount.
It works approximately like this. I have a product, such as music, and I
want to sell the product for fifty cents a pop. I get PepperCoins from
purchasers. They are digitally signed so that I know, for a fact, who gave
them to me, and that they are valid, for this one transaction only, so I
give each person the product. However, 95% of the coins are worth nothing.
The remainder are worth ten dollars. I throw away the worthless ones, and
cash the ten dollar coins, for the same fixed rate normally set for each
individual transaction.
If I only get ten coins, I'm playing double-or-nothing. If, however, I get
10,000, then I will get, almost certainly within a few percentage points,
the same amount as I would make if every coin were fifty cents.
So, micropayments may finally have been solved. Content that is now either
not available, or is free, can now, maybe, be paid for.
Thoughts? Questions?
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22184
From: James Gifford
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 09:47:21 -0800
Subject: Re: Peppercoins
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Filksinger wrote:
> Thoughts? Questions?
Why bother with the lottery valuation? Why not just make them digitally
signed fifty-cent pieces for internet use?
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22185
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 02:48:23 GMT
Subject: Re: Peppercoins
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Sun, 23 Feb 2003 09:47:21 -0800, James Gifford
<jgifford@surewest.net> wrote:
>Filksinger wrote:
>> Thoughts? Questions?
>
>Why bother with the lottery valuation? Why not just make them digitally
>signed fifty-cent pieces for internet use?
>
I'm thinking, why can't the transaction fee just be a tiny fraction of
the transaction due to the completely 'digital' nature (bring your own
pipeline no network or phone lines specifically for the card readers,
etc.)?
Maybe we need more theory or (probably) practical application on this,
Filk!
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22186
From: Stewart Sparks"
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 23:23:31 -0600
Subject: Looking for a quote....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I hope someone out there can help, my wife (sue) and i have been searching
for a quote of RAH's, something to the effect of "there are no new stories,
only old ones with the serial numbers filed off". Does anyone remember this
quote, and if so, do you recall which of RAH's works it is in? She's trying
to use the quote for a paper she's writing, so if y'all can help by Tuesday
night....
Stewart
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22187
From: Dee"
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 07:12:39 -0600
Subject: Re: Looking for a quote....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Stewart Sparks" <sparksfamily@otelco.net> wrote in message
news:3e59abfc.0@news.sff.net...
> I hope someone out there can help, my wife (sue) and i have been searching
> for a quote of RAH's, something to the effect of "there are no new
stories,
> only old ones with the serial numbers filed off". Does anyone remember
this
> quote, and if so, do you recall which of RAH's works it is in? She's
trying
> to use the quote for a paper she's writing, so if y'all can help by
Tuesday
> night....
> Stewart
Stew--
Great to see you pixels! It has been a long time. I don;t remember
where the quote comes from, either, but you might try posting your question
on alt.fan.heinlein as well as here, especially since you are on a deadline.
--Dee2
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22188
From: Stewart Sparks"
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:16:39 -0600
Subject: Re: Looking for a quote....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Dee2
Long time indeed! Are you still in the same town? I've done a ton of work
there in the last few years, and I've thought of you each time. Hope things
are going well for you, and thanks for the suggestion.
Stew
"Dee" <ke4lfgDELETETHIS@amsat.org> wrote in message
news:3e5a1a4d.0@news.sff.net...
> "Stewart Sparks" <sparksfamily@otelco.net> wrote in message
> news:3e59abfc.0@news.sff.net...
> > I hope someone out there can help, my wife (sue) and i have been
searching
> > for a quote of RAH's, something to the effect of "there are no new
> stories,
> > only old ones with the serial numbers filed off". Does anyone remember
> this
> > quote, and if so, do you recall which of RAH's works it is in? She's
> trying
> > to use the quote for a paper she's writing, so if y'all can help by
> Tuesday
> > night....
> > Stewart
>
>
> Stew--
>
> Great to see you pixels! It has been a long time. I don;t remember
> where the quote comes from, either, but you might try posting your
question
> on alt.fan.heinlein as well as here, especially since you are on a
deadline.
>
> --Dee2
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22189
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:34:21 GMT
Subject: Re: Looking for a quote....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Sun, 23 Feb 2003 23:23:31 -0600, "Stewart Sparks"
<sparksfamily@otelco.net> wrote:
>I hope someone out there can help, my wife (sue) and i have been searching
>for a quote of RAH's, something to the effect of "there are no new stories,
>only old ones with the serial numbers filed off". Does anyone remember this
>quote, and if so, do you recall which of RAH's works it is in? She's trying
>to use the quote for a paper she's writing, so if y'all can help by Tuesday
>night....
>Stewart
>
Stew! I looked quickly through Requiem and Grumbles and couldn't find
it. Although now that I think about it, it's probably from Number of
the Beast.
It's REALLY good to hear from you. Please drop by more frequently.
Those kids are probably in college by now. :)
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22190
From: Stewart Sparks"
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:19:56 -0600
Subject: Re: Looking for a quote....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Hey, JT, glad to "see" you again, Page is 16, a sophomore in high school,
and a 2nd degree black belt in American karate. Sue is also a 2nd degree,
and on a full scholarship at Alabama A&M University, majoring in Forestry
(Straight 4.0 after almost 2 years). Can't remember if I've had the
pleasure of "meeting" your lovely wife, but greetings to her also.
I've looked pretty thoroughly in NOTB, couldn't find it. Hope I'm not
getting it confused with something from Spider Robinson, but I would have
sworn RAH said it.
Stew
"JT" <JT@REM0VE.sff.net> wrote in message
news:3e5ab997.195398718@news.sff.net...
> On Sun, 23 Feb 2003 23:23:31 -0600, "Stewart Sparks"
> <sparksfamily@otelco.net> wrote:
>
> >I hope someone out there can help, my wife (sue) and i have been
searching
> >for a quote of RAH's, something to the effect of "there are no new
stories,
> >only old ones with the serial numbers filed off". Does anyone remember
this
> >quote, and if so, do you recall which of RAH's works it is in? She's
trying
> >to use the quote for a paper she's writing, so if y'all can help by
Tuesday
> >night....
> >Stewart
> >
> Stew! I looked quickly through Requiem and Grumbles and couldn't find
> it. Although now that I think about it, it's probably from Number of
> the Beast.
>
> It's REALLY good to hear from you. Please drop by more frequently.
> Those kids are probably in college by now. :)
>
> JT
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22191
From: Gordon G. Sollars
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 22:41:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Looking for a quote....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
In article <3e59abfc.0@news.sff.net>, sparksfamily@otelco.net says...
> I hope someone out there can help, my wife (sue) and i have been searching
> for a quote of RAH's, something to the effect of "there are no new stories,
> only old ones with the serial numbers filed off". Does anyone remember this
> quote, and if so, do you recall which of RAH's works it is in? She's trying
> to use the quote for a paper she's writing, so if y'all can help by Tuesday
> night....
> Stewart
I pretty sure such a remark was made by Lazarus or Hazel.
--
Gordon Sollars
gsollars@pobox.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22192
From: Gordon G. Sollars
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 22:56:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Looking for a quote....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
In article <MPG.18c4afedf4602a33989822@news.sff.net>, gsollars@pobox.com
says...
> I pretty sure such a remark was made by Lazarus or Hazel.
Then, again, it could have been Jubal. ;-) And that might be easier
to check.
--
Gordon Sollars
gsollars@pobox.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22193
From: James Gifford
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:59:23 -0800
Subject: Re: Looking for a quote....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Gordon G. Sollars wrote:
>> I pretty sure such a remark was made by Lazarus or Hazel.
> Then, again, it could have been Jubal. ;-) And that might be easier
> to check.
I'm reasonably sure it's in _Stranger_.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22194
From: Stewart Sparks"
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 23:14:58 -0600
Subject: Re: Looking for a quote....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I've looked fairly extensively in SIASL, NOTB, and Expanded Universe. AAgh,
I forgot to look in Requiem, it might be in there.
Stew
"James Gifford" <jgifford@surewest.net> wrote in message
news:3E5AEA1B.7020007@surewest.net...
> Gordon G. Sollars wrote:
> >> I pretty sure such a remark was made by Lazarus or Hazel.
>
> > Then, again, it could have been Jubal. ;-) And that might be easier
> > to check.
>
> I'm reasonably sure it's in _Stranger_.
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22195
From: Stewart Sparks"
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 23:18:55 -0600
Subject: Re: Looking for a quote....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Did I just read that our Les is married to John Paul?
"JT" <JT@REM0VE.sff.net> wrote in message
news:3e5ab997.195398718@news.sff.net...
> On Sun, 23 Feb 2003 23:23:31 -0600, "Stewart Sparks"
> <sparksfamily@otelco.net> wrote:
>
> >I hope someone out there can help, my wife (sue) and i have been
searching
> >for a quote of RAH's, something to the effect of "there are no new
stories,
> >only old ones with the serial numbers filed off". Does anyone remember
this
> >quote, and if so, do you recall which of RAH's works it is in? She's
trying
> >to use the quote for a paper she's writing, so if y'all can help by
Tuesday
> >night....
> >Stewart
> >
> Stew! I looked quickly through Requiem and Grumbles and couldn't find
> it. Although now that I think about it, it's probably from Number of
> the Beast.
>
> It's REALLY good to hear from you. Please drop by more frequently.
> Those kids are probably in college by now. :)
>
> JT
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22196
From: noone"
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:53:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Looking for a quote....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
don't ask me to swear to it in a court of law but that sounds like something
heinlein would have had jubal harshaw saying in "siasl" possibly while his
harem was helping him write a story.
"gunner"
------------------------------
"Stewart Sparks" <sparksfamily@otelco.net> wrote in message
news:3e5ac466.0@news.sff.net...
> Hey, JT, glad to "see" you again, Page is 16, a sophomore in high school,
> and a 2nd degree black belt in American karate. Sue is also a 2nd degree,
> and on a full scholarship at Alabama A&M University, majoring in Forestry
> (Straight 4.0 after almost 2 years). Can't remember if I've had the
> pleasure of "meeting" your lovely wife, but greetings to her also.
> I've looked pretty thoroughly in NOTB, couldn't find it. Hope I'm not
> getting it confused with something from Spider Robinson, but I would have
> sworn RAH said it.
> Stew
>
>
> "JT" <JT@REM0VE.sff.net> wrote in message
> news:3e5ab997.195398718@news.sff.net...
> > On Sun, 23 Feb 2003 23:23:31 -0600, "Stewart Sparks"
> > <sparksfamily@otelco.net> wrote:
> >
> > >I hope someone out there can help, my wife (sue) and i have been
> searching
> > >for a quote of RAH's, something to the effect of "there are no new
> stories,
> > >only old ones with the serial numbers filed off". Does anyone remember
> this
> > >quote, and if so, do you recall which of RAH's works it is in? She's
> trying
> > >to use the quote for a paper she's writing, so if y'all can help by
> Tuesday
> > >night....
> > >Stewart
> > >
> > Stew! I looked quickly through Requiem and Grumbles and couldn't find
> > it. Although now that I think about it, it's probably from Number of
> > the Beast.
> >
> > It's REALLY good to hear from you. Please drop by more frequently.
> > Those kids are probably in college by now. :)
> >
> > JT
> >
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22197
From: John Paul Vrolyk
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:26:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Looking for a quote....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Stewart Sparks wrote:
> Did I just read that our Les is married to John Paul?
That's true. In fact, we're coming up on our 4th anniversary,
and our second child is on the way. :-)
Les has various pictures and stuff on her web page if you
want to check it out:
http://www.vrolyk.org/les/
Where do you live, Stewart? Les has mentioned you and your wife,
but I've not yet had the pleasure of meeting you.
--
John Paul Vrolyk
jp@vrolyk.org
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22198
From: Stewart Sparks"
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:06:23 -0600
Subject: Re: Looking for a quote....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Hi, John Paul, Sue and I have posted with you before, but it's been years.
We live in north Alabama, "up in the hills", near Huntsville. We went to
the first Gathering and met Les and JT and Deb and WJake and the rest. If
you've seen pics or video of that trip, I'm the short one with the beard
trying to teach Les some karate <g>.
Congrats on y'all's marriage, you've got a good one. Tell Les I said "hi",
and we'll try to stay in touch this time.
Stew
"John Paul Vrolyk" <jp@vrolyk.org> wrote in message
news:3E5B6EF4.E91C14CE@vrolyk.org...
> Stewart Sparks wrote:
> > Did I just read that our Les is married to John Paul?
>
> That's true. In fact, we're coming up on our 4th anniversary,
> and our second child is on the way. :-)
>
> Les has various pictures and stuff on her web page if you
> want to check it out:
> http://www.vrolyk.org/les/
>
> Where do you live, Stewart? Les has mentioned you and your wife,
> but I've not yet had the pleasure of meeting you.
>
> --
> John Paul Vrolyk
> jp@vrolyk.org
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22199
From: Randy J. Jost"
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:49:07 -0700
Subject: Re: Looking for a quote....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Stewart Sparks wrote:
> I hope someone out there can help, my wife (sue) and i have been searching
> for a quote of RAH's, something to the effect of "there are no new stories,
> only old ones with the serial numbers filed off". Does anyone remember this
> quote, and if so, do you recall which of RAH's works it is in? She's trying
> to use the quote for a paper she's writing, so if y'all can help by Tuesday
> night....
> Stewart
>
>
Stewart,
This quote appears in a couple of places in slightly different form.
I'm doing a search of the texts that I have in electronic form, and I
can find it in the following locations (sorry I don't have specific page
numbers since I'm at the office and my books are at home):
Look at approximately page 70 of the Rolling Stones, where Hazel says
"Why not? I may put it in the show - serial numbers rubbed off, of course."
Also, look in The Cat Who Walked Through Walls, toward the end of the
book, where Colin Campbell is in Iowa and says:
I was not worried by my lack of local legal money, my lack of
tangible assets of any sort. A beautiful summer day in Iowa leaves no
room for worry. I could work and would-spreading manure if that was the
sort of work available. And I would soon spread manure of another sort,
moonlighting nights and Sundays. In 2177 Evelyn Fingerhut had not yet
retired, so pick some new pen names and sell him the same old tripe. The
same stories-just file off the serial numbers.
File off the serial numbers, change the body lines a bit. give it
a new paint job, switch it over the state line, and it's yours!- that's
the secret of literary success. Editors always claim to be looking for
new stories but they don't buy them; they buy "mixture as before."
Because the cash customers want to be entertained, not amazed, not
instructed, not frightened.
Hope this is of some assistance.
Best regards,
Randy
--
Randy J. Jost, Ph.D., PE
Asst. Professor
Dept of Elec. & Comp. Engr.
Utah State University
4120 Old Main Hill
Logan, UT 84322-4120
(435) 797-0789 (Phone)
(435) 797-3054 (Fax)
randy.j.jost@usu.edu
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22200
From: Randy J. Jost"
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:53:54 -0700
Subject: Re: Looking for a quote....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Randy J. Jost wrote:
> Stewart Sparks wrote:
>
>> I hope someone out there can help, my wife (sue) and i have been
>> searching
>> for a quote of RAH's, something to the effect of "there are no new
>> stories,
>> only old ones with the serial numbers filed off". Does anyone
>> remember this
>> quote, and if so, do you recall which of RAH's works it is in? She's
>> trying
>> to use the quote for a paper she's writing, so if y'all can help by
>> Tuesday
>> night....
>> Stewart
>>
>>
>
> Stewart,
>
> This quote appears in a couple of places in slightly different form. I'm
> doing a search of the texts that I have in electronic form, and I can
> find it in the following locations (sorry I don't have specific page
> numbers since I'm at the office and my books are at home):
>
> Look at approximately page 70 of the Rolling Stones, where Hazel says
> "Why not? I may put it in the show - serial numbers rubbed off, of course."
>
> Also, look in The Cat Who Walked Through Walls, toward the end of the
> book, where Colin Campbell is in Iowa and says:
>
> I was not worried by my lack of local legal money, my lack of
> tangible assets of any sort. A beautiful summer day in Iowa leaves no
> room for worry. I could work and would-spreading manure if that was the
> sort of work available. And I would soon spread manure of another sort,
> moonlighting nights and Sundays. In 2177 Evelyn Fingerhut had not yet
> retired, so pick some new pen names and sell him the same old tripe. The
> same stories-just file off the serial numbers.
> File off the serial numbers, change the body lines a bit. give it a
> new paint job, switch it over the state line, and it's yours!- that's
> the secret of literary success. Editors always claim to be looking for
> new stories but they don't buy them; they buy "mixture as before."
> Because the cash customers want to be entertained, not amazed, not
> instructed, not frightened.
>
> Hope this is of some assistance.
>
> Best regards,
> Randy
>
Stewart,
Just remembered the other place I should have checked. In Glory Road,
at the point where Star and Oscar are talking about marrying, Star is
talking about Shakespeare and spells and says:
"Shakespeare!" I said. "Macbeth."
" 'Cool it with a baboon's blood--' No, Will got it from me, milord
love. That's the way with writers; they'll steal anything, file off the
serial numbers, and claim it for their own. I got it from my
aunt--another aunt--who was a professor of internal medicine. The rhyme
is a mnemonic for the real ingredients which are much more
complicated--never can tell when you'll need a hangover cure. I
compounded it last night, knowing that Rufo, for the sake of our skins,
would need to be at his sharpest today--two doses, in fact, in case you
needed one. But you surprised me, my love; you break out with nobility
at the oddest times."
Sorry for not remembering this on the first run.
Randy
--
Randy J. Jost, Ph.D., PE
Asst. Professor
Dept of Elec. & Comp. Engr.
Utah State University
4120 Old Main Hill
Logan, UT 84322-4120
(435) 797-0789 (Phone)
(435) 797-3054 (Fax)
randy.j.jost@usu.edu
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22201
From: Gordon G. Sollars
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:09:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Looking for a quote....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
In article <3E5BBAA3.4030207@usu.edu>, randy.j.jost@usu.edu says...
> Look at approximately page 70 of the Rolling Stones, where Hazel says
> "Why not? I may put it in the show - serial numbers rubbed off, of course."
Vindication!! ;-)
Where did you get these books in e-form, Randy? A collected works on CD
would be superb!
--
Gordon Sollars
gsollars@pobox.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22202
From: Stewart Sparks"
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:59:00 -0600
Subject: Re: Looking for a quote....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Randy, Gordon, y'all are life-savers! That was just the information Sue
needed. Thank you both so much, we owe you both one.
Stewart
"Gordon G. Sollars" <gsollars@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.18c5ebecfe48d682989824@news.sff.net...
> In article <3E5BBAA3.4030207@usu.edu>, randy.j.jost@usu.edu says...
>
> > Look at approximately page 70 of the Rolling Stones, where Hazel says
> > "Why not? I may put it in the show - serial numbers rubbed off, of
course."
>
> Vindication!! ;-)
>
> Where did you get these books in e-form, Randy? A collected works on CD
> would be superb!
>
> --
> Gordon Sollars
> gsollars@pobox.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22203
From: Gordon G. Sollars
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:17:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Looking for a quote....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
In article <3e5c3bae.0@news.sff.net>, sparksfamily@otelco.net says...
> Randy, Gordon, y'all are life-savers! That was just the information Sue
> needed. Thank you both so much, we owe you both one.
Well, thanks, but Randy did all the work. Based on my reply, you might
still be slogging through /Time Enough for Love/ page by page. ;-)
--
Gordon Sollars
gsollars@pobox.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22204
From: Stewart Sparks"
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 22:40:36 -0600
Subject: Re: Looking for a quote....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
btw, I'm with you, I'd like to get the whole collection in e-format. I have
a 16 year old son who is into them now, so i have to buy replacements for
our collection every few years.
Stew
"Gordon G. Sollars" <gsollars@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.18c609e1e061a4c0989825@news.sff.net...
> In article <3e5c3bae.0@news.sff.net>, sparksfamily@otelco.net says...
> > Randy, Gordon, y'all are life-savers! That was just the information Sue
> > needed. Thank you both so much, we owe you both one.
>
> Well, thanks, but Randy did all the work. Based on my reply, you might
> still be slogging through /Time Enough for Love/ page by page. ;-)
>
> --
> Gordon Sollars
> gsollars@pobox.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22205
From: Page Sparks"
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:36:03 -0600
Subject: Re: Looking for a quote....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Hello Fellow Heinlein Readers and Admirers,
My name is Page and as my dad has already stated, I love Heinlein's books. I
just wanted to pop in a message saying hello, especially to the people at
the First Gathering. Everytime I see pictures or watch the video, it brings
back memories. Of course most of them I had no clue as to what you were
talking about, but in the sense of things it's still a memory. I am
currently working on Sir Lazarus Long stories.
Hope to speak with ya'll soon.
Stewart Page Sparks III
"Stewart Sparks" <sparksfamily@otelco.net> wrote in message
news:3e5c44f7.0@news.sff.net...
> btw, I'm with you, I'd like to get the whole collection in e-format. I
have
> a 16 year old son who is into them now, so i have to buy replacements for
> our collection every few years.
> Stew
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22206
From: Randy J. Jost"
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:15:30 -0700
Subject: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Gordon G. Sollars wrote:
> In article <3E5BBAA3.4030207@usu.edu>, randy.j.jost@usu.edu says...
>
>
>>Look at approximately page 70 of the Rolling Stones, where Hazel says
>>"Why not? I may put it in the show - serial numbers rubbed off, of course."
>
>
> Vindication!! ;-)
>
> Where did you get these books in e-form, Randy? A collected works on CD
> would be superb!
>
Gordon,
I have been putting together a personal collection for some time, to do
just this sort of thing. It's a long way from being complete, but it
does come in handy on some occasions, such as this. I have about 80% in
a common searchable format, but the interface is still clunky and
inefficient. Lots of work to be done yet.
I think there is some discussion going on about the estate offering such
a tool, but you should wait to hear something from someone who has some
knowledge. You know the old saying, those that speak don't know, and
those that know, don't speak. And since I'm talking, you can figure out
how much I know. :-)
The real question is how do you offer ebooks so that you get the
investment back, as well as contribute to the estate's assets, so that
the estate can fulfill its charitable mission. Music and video aren't
the only thing being traded over the internet these days - there is a
thriving trade in e-books. I've spent some significant amounts of time
trying to keep this down for Ginny's sake, as well as for the protection
of RAH's works. Usually, the copies that I have seen have been rather
poorly done, with significant errors in formatting, spelling,
punctuation, etc. It really does a disservice to the "Master's" works
to propagate them in that form, because the errors can often change the
tone of the story, ultimately ruining the experience, or at the very
least making it difficult to engage in that state of mind where
suspension of belief is paramount to entering the author's world.
I'm afraid that in the current environment, there is a high probability
that if such a collection was made widely available, that in a very
short time it would be propagating around the internet at a speed
approaching at least .7c .... There are lots of arguments that have
been made, pro and con, about how to distribute ebooks and to fairly
reward the writers and distribution system, but no one has come up with
the answer yet. Efforts are being made. I know that Baen Books
http://www.baen.com/ has established a free e-library of works from
some of their authors, and it appears to be working. But for small
boutique operations, this model might end up being a disaster. I
suspect that Jim Gifford and others, who have to deal with this on a
real life basis would probably back me up on such an assertion.
The "funny" thing is, Heinlein "fans", who should know better than
anyone what TANSTAAFL means, are some of the worst offenders. I don't
believe that anyone who frequents this particular list falls in that
category, but those elsewhere have made it clear that "information wants
to be free," and they don't care about the copyright issues. In my
opinion, information doesn't give a a red rat's rear whether it is free
or not. Copyright is a well established right and should be respected.
On the other hand, I don't agree with the recent changes that have
been made to benefit a small number of powerful copyright holders,
(M-I-C .....) who have subverted the rights of the majority for their
own cash flow positions.
I don't know, I'm just a dumb ol' engineer from a small town in
Missouri, with the dirt still between my toes. Older and wiser heads
will have to solve this. I do know that if the estate produces an
eventual product for commercial distribution, I'll be one of the first
in line to buy one, despite having multiple copies of the books already.
In the meantime, I'll keep working on my own little research tool.
<THS plug>
Maybe if enough people join The Heinlein Society and encourage the board
of directors to work with the estate to figure out a way to do this, it
will happen sooner than later - which reminds me, I need to send in my
renewal.
</THS plug>
Anyway, glad to be of some assistance to Stewart and Sue, and look
forward to hearing what other's thoughts are. Since I'm cross-posting
this to AFH, it might be interesting. There are lots of people there,
all smarter than me, with strong opinions. That always makes for good
discussion as all sides of the issue, including those from dimensions
above the three common orthogonal ones, are brought out. :-)
Randy
--
Randy J. Jost, Ph.D., PE
Asst. Professor
Dept of Elec. & Comp. Engr.
Utah State University
4120 Old Main Hill
Logan, UT 84322-4120
(435) 797-0789 (Phone)
(435) 797-3054 (Fax)
randy.j.jost@usu.edu
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22207
From: Stewart Sparks"
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 11:39:44 -0600
Subject: Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Randy
Very well put, you should teach college or something <g>. I'm with you,
I'll quickly get in line to purchase the e-books if they become available.
I'm a (Heinlein) drug pusher, been getting people hooked on the stuff for
years, so i'm constantly getting my books borrowed (and lost). It would be
nice to tell someone they can just go to www.buyheinleinnow.com and get
their own. Also would keep my collection intact.
Stew
"Randy J. Jost" <randy.j.jost@usu.edu> wrote in message
news:3E5CF632.9070409@usu.edu...
> Gordon G. Sollars wrote:
> > In article <3E5BBAA3.4030207@usu.edu>, randy.j.jost@usu.edu says...
> >
> >
> >>Look at approximately page 70 of the Rolling Stones, where Hazel says
> >>"Why not? I may put it in the show - serial numbers rubbed off, of
course."
> >
> >
> > Vindication!! ;-)
> >
> > Where did you get these books in e-form, Randy? A collected works on CD
> > would be superb!
> >
>
> Gordon,
>
> I have been putting together a personal collection for some time, to do
> just this sort of thing. It's a long way from being complete, but it
> does come in handy on some occasions, such as this. I have about 80% in
> a common searchable format, but the interface is still clunky and
> inefficient. Lots of work to be done yet.
>
> I think there is some discussion going on about the estate offering such
> a tool, but you should wait to hear something from someone who has some
> knowledge. You know the old saying, those that speak don't know, and
> those that know, don't speak. And since I'm talking, you can figure out
> how much I know. :-)
>
> The real question is how do you offer ebooks so that you get the
> investment back, as well as contribute to the estate's assets, so that
> the estate can fulfill its charitable mission. Music and video aren't
> the only thing being traded over the internet these days - there is a
> thriving trade in e-books. I've spent some significant amounts of time
> trying to keep this down for Ginny's sake, as well as for the protection
> of RAH's works. Usually, the copies that I have seen have been rather
> poorly done, with significant errors in formatting, spelling,
> punctuation, etc. It really does a disservice to the "Master's" works
> to propagate them in that form, because the errors can often change the
> tone of the story, ultimately ruining the experience, or at the very
> least making it difficult to engage in that state of mind where
> suspension of belief is paramount to entering the author's world.
>
> I'm afraid that in the current environment, there is a high probability
> that if such a collection was made widely available, that in a very
> short time it would be propagating around the internet at a speed
> approaching at least .7c .... There are lots of arguments that have
> been made, pro and con, about how to distribute ebooks and to fairly
> reward the writers and distribution system, but no one has come up with
> the answer yet. Efforts are being made. I know that Baen Books
> http://www.baen.com/ has established a free e-library of works from
> some of their authors, and it appears to be working. But for small
> boutique operations, this model might end up being a disaster. I
> suspect that Jim Gifford and others, who have to deal with this on a
> real life basis would probably back me up on such an assertion.
>
> The "funny" thing is, Heinlein "fans", who should know better than
> anyone what TANSTAAFL means, are some of the worst offenders. I don't
> believe that anyone who frequents this particular list falls in that
> category, but those elsewhere have made it clear that "information wants
> to be free," and they don't care about the copyright issues. In my
> opinion, information doesn't give a a red rat's rear whether it is free
> or not. Copyright is a well established right and should be respected.
> On the other hand, I don't agree with the recent changes that have
> been made to benefit a small number of powerful copyright holders,
> (M-I-C .....) who have subverted the rights of the majority for their
> own cash flow positions.
>
> I don't know, I'm just a dumb ol' engineer from a small town in
> Missouri, with the dirt still between my toes. Older and wiser heads
> will have to solve this. I do know that if the estate produces an
> eventual product for commercial distribution, I'll be one of the first
> in line to buy one, despite having multiple copies of the books already.
> In the meantime, I'll keep working on my own little research tool.
>
> <THS plug>
> Maybe if enough people join The Heinlein Society and encourage the board
> of directors to work with the estate to figure out a way to do this, it
> will happen sooner than later - which reminds me, I need to send in my
> renewal.
> </THS plug>
>
> Anyway, glad to be of some assistance to Stewart and Sue, and look
> forward to hearing what other's thoughts are. Since I'm cross-posting
> this to AFH, it might be interesting. There are lots of people there,
> all smarter than me, with strong opinions. That always makes for good
> discussion as all sides of the issue, including those from dimensions
> above the three common orthogonal ones, are brought out. :-)
>
> Randy
>
> --
> Randy J. Jost, Ph.D., PE
> Asst. Professor
> Dept of Elec. & Comp. Engr.
> Utah State University
> 4120 Old Main Hill
> Logan, UT 84322-4120
>
> (435) 797-0789 (Phone)
> (435) 797-3054 (Fax)
>
> randy.j.jost@usu.edu
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22208
From: voxwoman
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:34:03 -0500
Subject: Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
There are websites out there that you have to pay a nominal fee before
you can download an e-book (I've purchased a few, and I'm ghostwriting
one right now on Internet marketing).
There's a service out there designed just for selling "non-tangible"
items online (like software, ebooks, and services). www.clickbank.com -
the set up is a little steep (IMO) at $49.99, and they take 1 dollar
plus 7.5% - but there's no monthly fees, and it's cheaper than a
merchant account.
I completely agree that the business model of the Internet has to change
a bit in favor of content providers rather than content consumers.
Otherwise, nobody will be able to afford to put stuff up on the 'net.
there isn't a good way for websites to collect "micro payments" for
goods/services (like 1 song download, for instance) yet. I think once
that can get set up, where you can charge 50 cents for a song, or a
couple of bucks for an e-book, that people may be willing to actually
shell out the money for the "art".
Randy J. Jost wrote:
> Gordon G. Sollars wrote:
>
>> In article <3E5BBAA3.4030207@usu.edu>, randy.j.jost@usu.edu says...
>>
>>
>>> Look at approximately page 70 of the Rolling Stones, where Hazel says
>>> "Why not? I may put it in the show - serial numbers rubbed off, of
>>> course."
>>
>>
>>
>> Vindication!! ;-)
>>
>> Where did you get these books in e-form, Randy? A collected works on
>> CD would be superb!
>>
>
> Gordon,
>
> I have been putting together a personal collection for some time, to do
> just this sort of thing. It's a long way from being complete, but it
> does come in handy on some occasions, such as this. I have about 80% in
> a common searchable format, but the interface is still clunky and
> inefficient. Lots of work to be done yet.
>
> I think there is some discussion going on about the estate offering such
> a tool, but you should wait to hear something from someone who has some
> knowledge. You know the old saying, those that speak don't know, and
> those that know, don't speak. And since I'm talking, you can figure out
> how much I know. :-)
>
> The real question is how do you offer ebooks so that you get the
> investment back, as well as contribute to the estate's assets, so that
> the estate can fulfill its charitable mission. Music and video aren't
> the only thing being traded over the internet these days - there is a
> thriving trade in e-books. I've spent some significant amounts of time
> trying to keep this down for Ginny's sake, as well as for the protection
> of RAH's works. Usually, the copies that I have seen have been rather
> poorly done, with significant errors in formatting, spelling,
> punctuation, etc. It really does a disservice to the "Master's" works
> to propagate them in that form, because the errors can often change the
> tone of the story, ultimately ruining the experience, or at the very
> least making it difficult to engage in that state of mind where
> suspension of belief is paramount to entering the author's world.
>
> I'm afraid that in the current environment, there is a high probability
> that if such a collection was made widely available, that in a very
> short time it would be propagating around the internet at a speed
> approaching at least .7c .... There are lots of arguments that have
> been made, pro and con, about how to distribute ebooks and to fairly
> reward the writers and distribution system, but no one has come up with
> the answer yet. Efforts are being made. I know that Baen Books
> http://www.baen.com/ has established a free e-library of works from
> some of their authors, and it appears to be working. But for small
> boutique operations, this model might end up being a disaster. I
> suspect that Jim Gifford and others, who have to deal with this on a
> real life basis would probably back me up on such an assertion.
>
> The "funny" thing is, Heinlein "fans", who should know better than
> anyone what TANSTAAFL means, are some of the worst offenders. I don't
> believe that anyone who frequents this particular list falls in that
> category, but those elsewhere have made it clear that "information wants
> to be free," and they don't care about the copyright issues. In my
> opinion, information doesn't give a a red rat's rear whether it is free
> or not. Copyright is a well established right and should be respected.
> On the other hand, I don't agree with the recent changes that have been
> made to benefit a small number of powerful copyright holders, (M-I-C
> .....) who have subverted the rights of the majority for their own cash
> flow positions.
>
> I don't know, I'm just a dumb ol' engineer from a small town in
> Missouri, with the dirt still between my toes. Older and wiser heads
> will have to solve this. I do know that if the estate produces an
> eventual product for commercial distribution, I'll be one of the first
> in line to buy one, despite having multiple copies of the books already.
> In the meantime, I'll keep working on my own little research tool.
>
> <THS plug>
> Maybe if enough people join The Heinlein Society and encourage the board
> of directors to work with the estate to figure out a way to do this, it
> will happen sooner than later - which reminds me, I need to send in my
> renewal.
> </THS plug>
>
> Anyway, glad to be of some assistance to Stewart and Sue, and look
> forward to hearing what other's thoughts are. Since I'm cross-posting
> this to AFH, it might be interesting. There are lots of people there,
> all smarter than me, with strong opinions. That always makes for good
> discussion as all sides of the issue, including those from dimensions
> above the three common orthogonal ones, are brought out. :-)
>
> Randy
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22209
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 23:58:47 GMT
Subject: Re: Looking for a quote....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:36:03 -0600, "Page Sparks" <raist@otelco.net>
wrote:
>Hope to speak with ya'll soon.
>Stewart Page Sparks III
>
Hi Page! I was one of those people at that Gathering. My fondest
memory is singing down at "the Bluff". Your dad sings with great
gusto. ;)
JT
(I now have two little boys of my own--how time flies!)
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22210
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 23:58:48 GMT
Subject: Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
>Randy J. Jost wrote:
>> Anyway, glad to be of some assistance to Stewart and Sue, and look
>> forward to hearing what other's thoughts are. Since I'm cross-posting
>> this to AFH, it might be interesting. There are lots of people there,
>> all smarter than me, with strong opinions. That always makes for good
>> discussion as all sides of the issue, including those from dimensions
>> above the three common orthogonal ones, are brought out. :-)
>>
Well, MS Reader has some sort of scheme where only the Reader
registrant may read the copy of the book. Assuming that is somehow
translated in the future to 'digital signature' and some way is
figured out to embed the signature throughout the copy of the
book--you may not be able to prevent the spread of the "cracked" copy,
but at least you should be able to see who originally pirated the
book. Maybe a deterrent?
I second the plug for the Heinlein Society. With Mrs. H's passing, I
think the Society is an even-more-relevant thing to be involved in if
you really think of yourself as one of Heinlein's Children. We really
need more people willing to roll up their sleeves and do some things
in their communities on behalf of THS. http://www.heinleinsociety.org
to find out more.
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22211
From: Gordon G. Sollars
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 22:44:07 -0500
Subject: Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
In article <3e5d51ae.365405484@news.sff.net>, JT@REM0VE.sff.net says...
> Well, MS Reader has some sort of scheme where only the Reader
> registrant may read the copy of the book. Assuming that is somehow
> translated in the future to 'digital signature' and some way is
> figured out to embed the signature throughout the copy of the
> book--you may not be able to prevent the spread of the "cracked" copy,
> but at least you should be able to see who originally pirated the
> book. Maybe a deterrent?
Doesn't the use of a digital watermark imply that the work is in some
not-text format, such as jpeg? The problem with that is that you can't
easily scan the text, e.g., to find Hazel's "serial numbers" comment.
--
Gordon Sollars
gsollars@pobox.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22212
From: Eli Hestermann
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 08:55:55 -0500
Subject: Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Palm reader has an interesting way to work around people distributing
copies of ebooks. When a book is first opened on a PDA, the user has to
enter the name and credit card number of the purchaser. You can give the
book to everyone you want, but make sure you trust them with your CC
number!
--
Eli V. Hestermann
Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu
"Vita brevis est, ars longa." -Seneca
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22213
From: Filksinger"
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:07:25 -0800
Subject: Re: Peppercoins
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"James Gifford" <jgifford@surewest.net> wrote in message
news:3E590929.8040109@surewest.net...
> Filksinger wrote:
> > Thoughts? Questions?
>
> Why bother with the lottery valuation? Why not just make them digitally
> signed fifty-cent pieces for internet use?
Because each transaction costs a fixed price to process with the issuer.
This fixed price cannot be lowered too far, because then the issuer will
lose money. This fixed price is high enough that nobody has found a
cost-effective way of processing transactions that is worthwhile for less
than a $5 transaction. Note the post of "voxwoman" in a recent thread about
small purchases online. The service she described has a $49.95 setup fee, 7%
of the value of the transaction, and a fixed price per transaction of _$1_.
Obviously useless for transactions of 50 cents each. Even big businesses pay
something on the order of 25 cents per transaction, plus a percentage;
again, too much for many micropayments.
OTOH, with Peppercoins, your transactions are all big enough to make the
cost worthwhile. The worthless ones cost the final recipient nothing, and
the worthwhile ones are $10 or more, making even a $1 + 7% charge per
merchant-to-bank transaction into an 8.5 cent cost per 50 cent
customer-to-merchant transaction. Since the actual cost for a big merchant
per $10 transaction is more likely to work out to something like 3.5 cents
per 50 cent transaction, this is a workable amount for virtually any size
transaction.
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22214
From: Filksinger"
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:35:20 -0800
Subject: Copyright (was Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....))
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Randy J. Jost" <randy.j.jost@usu.edu> wrote in message
news:3E5CF632.9070409@usu.edu...
<snip>
> The "funny" thing is, Heinlein "fans", who should know better than
> anyone what TANSTAAFL means, are some of the worst offenders. I don't
> believe that anyone who frequents this particular list falls in that
> category, but those elsewhere have made it clear that "information wants
> to be free," and they don't care about the copyright issues. In my
> opinion, information doesn't give a a red rat's rear whether it is free
> or not. Copyright is a well established right and should be respected.
> On the other hand, I don't agree with the recent changes that have
> been made to benefit a small number of powerful copyright holders,
> (M-I-C .....) who have subverted the rights of the majority for their
> own cash flow positions.
Well, I am not, and never have been, a member of the "information wants to
be free" crowd, but there are a few things I have to say about the view of
copyright that you are promoting, too.
On the one hand, I am heavily in favor of allowing works to enter the public
domain before their value has been sucked from them. As a result, I oppose
the Berne Convention and the 1976 Revision of the U.S. Copyright Act. In
fact, I'm not certain I go with the 1909 Revision of the U.S. Copyright Act.
OTOH, the only thing allowing the Heinlein Society to keep copyright is the
same laws that I oppose.
It can be argued (and the Supreme Court has upheld) that "copyright" isn't a
fundamental right, any more than slander and libel laws are fundamental
rights. They are, and copyright law is, a restriction on fundamental rights
(freedom of speech and freedom of the press), in exchange for a worthwhile
goal. In the case of copyright, this worthwhile goal is to ensure that
society gets the value of the work which otherwise might never have been
created or released, and, to a lesser degree, to ensure that an artist is
paid for his labors. Note that the US Supreme Court has supported the
position in the past that copyright is entirely for the benefit of the
public, and is a "wholly statutory" grant.
I have, in theory, a right to say whatever I want, in whatever form I
choose, to make my point. Copyright takes away that right, by saying that I
cannot use certain formats to spread that information without the permission
of the owner of the copyright. In general, just not being able to use part
of a work for my own purposes is a curtailment of that right. For a specific
example, if I want to say, "Disney used to be a racist company", I can, but
I cannot use still shots from old Disney cartoons to promote my point. My
freedom of speech is curtailed.
Note that society gets the greatest percentage of the value of works in the
"public domain", while the copyright holder gets the greatest percentage of
the value of works still under copyright. Thus, copyright gives benefits to
the copyright holder, and expires for the benefit of the public.
Note that I am not implying that this restriction on fundamental rights is a
bad thing; I think it is a good thing, just as slander and libel laws are a
good restriction on those same rights. It is still a restriction, and so
long as it is in place (i.e. so long as the copyright lasts), the primary
value of a work is reserved to the copyright holder, not to society.
Society gets value from copyrighted works. This is obviously true. Millions
of dollars have been spent on the works of Robert Heinlein over the years,
for example. Society sees value in those books, and has exchanged cash for
that value. This gives us a way to measure the continuing value of a work,
as well. By calculating the likely value of the copyrighted property over
time, as measured by sales of a work, we can determine approximately how
much of that value the copyright holder gets from a work, and how much
remains to the public.
In a society without copyright, the copyright holder gets little of the
value of an artistic work, and society gets almost all of the value (but
gets fewer works). In modern society, the opposite is true. Calculations of
the value of a work, for the purpose of determining the impact of current US
law on the value of copyright, tell us that more than 95% of a value of a
work has been extracted before the copyright expires. In other words, in
most cases, by the time that a work leaves copyright, nobody wants it. You
have to give it away, because nobody would pay for it.
So, while it pains me to say so, I don't think that copyright holders,
especially those not the original artist, have any right to maintain a
copyright that reserves almost the entire value of the original for the
copyright holder, instead of releasing it to the public. As a result, while
I might choose to purchase any e-books I get from the Heinlein Society, much
of Heinlein's work, IMHO, should be already in the public domain.
Thoughts? Suggestions? Flames?
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22215
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 22:57:34 GMT
Subject: Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 22:44:07 -0500, Gordon G. Sollars
<gsollars@pobox.com> wrote:
>Doesn't the use of a digital watermark imply that the work is in some
>not-text format, such as jpeg? The problem with that is that you can't
>easily scan the text, e.g., to find Hazel's "serial numbers" comment.
>
As an example, a .pdf file (Adobe Acrobat) is not text, but is easily
readable and fully searchable. Take a .pdf file and embed a watermark
assigned to -you and only you- (which is why I said "digital
signature"--it implies some agreed-upon format that works not just for
books but transactions, etc. Otherwise known in the e-government
services arena as "the holy grail" <G>)
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22216
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 22:57:35 GMT
Subject: Re: Copyright (was Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....))
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:35:20 -0800, "Filksinger"
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:
I followed you right up to the end, which I will reproduce as the crux
of the discussion (nice explanations, btw, I'll take you at your word
that the calculations of 'spent value' were valid--someone else may
ask for citations <G>):
>I don't think that copyright holders,
>especially those not the original artist, have any right to maintain a
>copyright that reserves almost the entire value of the original for the
>copyright holder, instead of releasing it to the public.
I do feel that copyright serves a purpose in allowing the creator of a
work to benefit during his lifetime. I think that's right. I might
be swayed that it's OK to eliminate the "death + x years" portion for
an estate.
Your argument just feels too "socialist" to me (in a classical sense).
When do you advocate public domain, then? 50% of value, 25%,
etc.--what does that equate to in years, or do we have to determine a
value first and then amortize (and at what percentage)?
This is interesting!
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22217
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 23:00:42 GMT
Subject: Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Thu, 27 Feb 2003 22:57:34 GMT, JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT) wrote:
>As an example, a .pdf file (Adobe Acrobat) is not text, but is easily
>readable and fully searchable. Take a .pdf file and embed a watermark
>assigned to -you and only you- (which is why I said "digital
>signature"--it implies some agreed-upon format that works not just for
>books but transactions, etc. Otherwise known in the e-government
>services arena as "the holy grail" <G>)
>
>JT
Sheesh. Sorry for the bad writing; I guess I got lost in my
parenthetical digression. ;) That last sentence didn't have a proper
ending.--append "and you've got your format." <VBG>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22218
From: Gordon G. Sollars
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 00:22:39 -0500
Subject: Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
In article <3e5e9195.447300328@news.sff.net>, JT@REM0VE.sff.net says...
> On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 22:44:07 -0500, Gordon G. Sollars
> <gsollars@pobox.com> wrote:
> >Doesn't the use of a digital watermark imply that the work is in some
> >not-text format, such as jpeg? The problem with that is that you can't
> >easily scan the text, e.g., to find Hazel's "serial numbers" comment.
> >
> As an example, a .pdf file (Adobe Acrobat) is not text, but is easily
> readable and fully searchable.
I understand that it is fully readable, but I did not know that it was
searchable in pdf format.
If we have searchable documents that cannot have signatures removed,
then an e-publisher could require by contract that every customer
maintain a credit account. Set a bot to work, and whenever a copy with
my signature is found on the web, I owe for another copy.
--
Gordon Sollars
gsollars@pobox.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22219
From: Chris Novak
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 09:06:02 -0500
Subject: Early RAH Novel
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Have been trying to remember the title of an early novel, late 50s early
60s? Was a scary scenario of an atomic bomb on a US city (similar to
Minneapolis/St Paul) must have been published during the height of the
Soviet attack scare. Prior to _Farnharm's Freehold_ I am sure. It dealt
_very_ realistically with the blast & it's aftermath. Was a polemic for
preparedness.
Does anyone here remember it?
Chris
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22220
From: Stewart Sparks"
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 09:17:36 -0600
Subject: Re: Early RAH Novel
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Chris,
Just looked through my collection, I couldn't find any novels that
matched your criteria. He wrote several articles on the subject (most
notably "The Last Days of the United States:), and the short story "On the
Slopes of Vesuvius". Both make for good (if depressing) reading. If you
can find the novel you're looking for, let me know, I thought I had them
all.
Stew
"Chris Novak" <redhen2@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:3E5F6CCA.2FBB262C@ameritech.net...
> Have been trying to remember the title of an early novel, late 50s early
> 60s? Was a scary scenario of an atomic bomb on a US city (similar to
> Minneapolis/St Paul) must have been published during the height of the
> Soviet attack scare. Prior to _Farnharm's Freehold_ I am sure. It dealt
> _very_ realistically with the blast & it's aftermath. Was a polemic for
> preparedness.
> Does anyone here remember it?
> Chris
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22221
From: Gordon G. Sollars
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 11:15:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Copyright (was Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....))
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
In article <3e5e9346.447733562@news.sff.net>, JT@REM0VE.sff.net says...
> Your argument just feels too "socialist" to me (in a classical sense).
> When do you advocate public domain, then? 50% of value, 25%,
> etc.--what does that equate to in years, or do we have to determine a
> value first and then amortize (and at what percentage)?
>
> This is interesting!
One interesting things about intellectual property (and abortion, btw)
is that even within the libertarian camp there is division over it -
both sides might like to claim the other is being "socialist".
If 50 people try to use a wheelbarrow at one time, the resulting
confusion will benefit no one. But 50 people can each use the /idea/ of
a wheelbarrow at the same time. (Economists say that intellectual
property is not "rivalrous".) Also, the cost of producing one more of
something such as a wheelbarrow is typically /much/ greater than the
cost of propagating the idea of a wheelbarrow to one more person - which
can be close to zero cost. This is especially true when communication
is cheap, and it becomes ever more so in our "digital age". Further,
the digital age has /also/ drastically reduced the cost of making
(perfect) copies for many goods. So it is particularly useful to
distinguish between the cost of making the first of something - which
includes the cost of coming up with the idea - and the subsequent cost
of every copy.
Because of this low cost and non-rival nature of intellectual property,
I think that Filk has a point in stressing the restrictive effect of
intellectual property rights on the rights of others. At the same time,
it is important to distinguish among kinds of intellectual property.
With patents it is most often just a matter of time. If the wheelbarrow
had not been invented in 10,000 B.C., it very well could have been
invented in 9995 B.C. However, the exact order of words in a novel
would most probably never be repeated. (And note that patent protection
is of shorter duration than copyright.) There are frequent cases of
completely independent development for patents and this is not anywhere
near as surprising as finding two authors who claim to have written the
same book.
--
Gordon Sollars
gsollars@pobox.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22222
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 00:22:59 GMT
Subject: Re: Copyright (was Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....))
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Fri, 28 Feb 2003 11:15:06 -0500, Gordon G. Sollars
<gsollars@pobox.com> wrote:
>Because of this low cost and non-rival nature of intellectual property,
>I think that Filk has a point in stressing the restrictive effect of
>intellectual property rights on the rights of others. At the same time,
>it is important to distinguish among kinds of intellectual property.
>With patents it is most often just a matter of time. If the wheelbarrow
>had not been invented in 10,000 B.C., it very well could have been
>invented in 9995 B.C. However, the exact order of words in a novel
>would most probably never be repeated. (And note that patent protection
>is of shorter duration than copyright.) There are frequent cases of
>completely independent development for patents and this is not anywhere
>near as surprising as finding two authors who claim to have written the
>same book.
I can agree with that. Making the distinction makes the difference in
the discussion. The idea of powered flight, say, versus the story of
"The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" are two very different examples.
In this centennial year of the anniversary of powered flight, you
notice that the Wrights spent a lot of energy into protecting their
patent, while losing out on many of the innovations that went on
around them. Air & Space Smithsonian had its most recent issue
devoted to the Centennial and quite a few interesting articles.
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22223
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 01:32:52 GMT
Subject: personal: JT's Site has moved
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Everyone:
I bought the domain www.tildens.net on a whim and have moved over my
personal web pages.
This also means that The Galactic Citizen website has also moved to:
http://www.tildens.net/TGC/ . Not that it's anything more than a
placeholder right now.
I've sent an email to those people that I knew linked to my sites, but
if anyone else has added a link in the past to me that I didn't
remember, thank you for updating. I think there's a way to do a
'reverse linkage' for a given page, but I'm not really sure how to do
it....
I hope this will be the last time I change URLs! (Although WJaKe may
someday buy TGC its own domain. ;)
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22224
From: Gordon G. Sollars
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 23:39:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Copyright (was Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....))
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
In article <3e5ffa56.539653250@news.sff.net>, JT@REM0VE.sff.net says...
> In this centennial year of the anniversary of powered flight, you
> notice that the Wrights spent a lot of energy into protecting their
> patent, while losing out on many of the innovations that went on
> around them. Air & Space Smithsonian had its most recent issue
> devoted to the Centennial and quite a few interesting articles.
That example is becoming one of the standard arguments against the idea
that patents are needed as a spur to technological development. The
Wrights largely stopped innovating and spent a great deal of time
defending their patent. Innovation really took off (!) when the
government forced cross licensing due to the war.
Many people who argue for strong intellectual property rights protection
make two arguments - that the idea just plain belongs to the creator,
just like a piece of tangible property /and/ that without IP there would
be little incentive to create. The latter argument is open to very
strong challenge.
--
Gordon Sollars
gsollars@pobox.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22225
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 23:39:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Early RAH Novel
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Chris: Short Story: "Free Men" IIRC.
Also, a city got nuked in "Project Nightmare"; again, IIRC, when one
of the telepaths was distracted from his duty of 'damping' the
nuclear reaction.
Ed J
On Fri, 28 Feb 2003 09:06:02 -0500, Chris Novak
<redhen2@ameritech.net> wrote:
>Have been trying to remember the title of an early novel, late 50s early
>60s? Was a scary scenario of an atomic bomb on a US city (similar to
>Minneapolis/St Paul) must have been published during the height of the
>Soviet attack scare. Prior to _Farnharm's Freehold_ I am sure. It dealt
>_very_ realistically with the blast & it's aftermath. Was a polemic for
>preparedness.
>Does anyone here remember it?
>Chris
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22226
From: SpaceCadet
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 00:46:32 -0600
Subject: www.topozone.com
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
If you like topographical maps, check out
http://www.topozone.com/default.asp
Carol
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22227
From: noone"
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 02:28:59 -0500
Subject: Re: www.topozone.com
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
thank you carol, most interesting, of course the first thing i looked up was
my own area. a good site, easy to use
"gunner"
-------------------------
"SpaceCadet" <cadozo@planet-save.com> wrote in message
news:3E605748.3030508@planet-save.com...
> If you like topographical maps, check out
> http://www.topozone.com/default.asp
>
> Carol
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22228
From: Randy J. Jost"
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 10:04:36 -0700
Subject: Also for astronomers - Re: www.topozone.com
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
SpaceCadet wrote:
> If you like topographical maps, check out
> http://www.topozone.com/default.asp
>
> Carol
>
Carol,
This is a great site, one I use often. It's especially good for
astronomers, because you can get the lat/long of any place that you
can put a name to. Plus, if you can get close, you can use the map
feature to find coordinates close enough for satellite tracking and
other astronomical software.
Randy
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22229
From: David Wright"
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 19:58:41 -0500
Subject: Heinlein Society News Letters
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
The latest News Letters from the Heinlein Society are now available at
http://www.heinleinsociety.org/NewsLarch.html
--
David Wright
http://www.alltel.net/~dwrighsr/index.html
Anytime is a good time to join us in The Heinlein Society
http://heinleinsociety.org/membership.html
http://heinleinsociety.org/join.html
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22230
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 04:21:01 GMT
Subject: Re: personal: JT's Site has moved
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Sat, 01 Mar 2003 01:32:52 GMT, JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT) wrote:
>I bought the domain www.tildens.net on a whim and have moved over my
>personal web pages.
>
I fiddled around a bit today checking links & updating a bit under the
covers. In a shameless bid to increase hits from my friends & family,
I have put a very recent photo of my sons on the main page. <G>
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22231
From: Charles Graft
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 11:21:53 -0500
Subject: Re: Looking for a quote....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Hi, Page--
I'm another one of the attendees of the first gathering; but I was
behind the camera most of the time. Welcome to the group.
--
<<Big Charlie>>
"Democracy is a form of worship. It is the worship of jackals by
jackasses." -- H. L. Menken
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22232
From: Charles Graft
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 11:50:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Copyright (was Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....))
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Hi, All--
As a holder of a patent, I state upfront that I have an ax to grind
here.
From the Constitution (Powers of Congress)
:
> To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing
> for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right
> to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
I think it is reasonably clear that patent and copyright holders do
have some rights under the constitution.
There does appear to be a certain prejudice especially against
patent holders. The argument that patents are not necessary to progress
is quite spurious. A very good example is Thomas Edison whose patent
royalties on an improved stock ticker were the first link in the chain
that drove the research that resulted in electric lamps, phonographs,
movies, and all the rest.
Corporations do not spend billions (or small inventors like me
thousands) of dollars to give the results away. If there were no
patents, or patent protection is too limited, the alternative of trade
secrets. See "shipstones" in "Friday". The other alternative is to
not bother. Do you honestly think the Wright Brothers would have gone
to all that trouble if they did not expect to get a return on it?
Copyrights keep getting longer and longer. Patents have been 17
years for what seems forever. There is a dichotomy here.
--
<<Big Charlie>>
"Democracy is a form of worship. It is the worship of jackals by
jackasses." -- H. L. Menken
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22233
From: Charles Graft
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 13:10:35 -0500
Subject: Airline (lack of) Security
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
All--
I read with some concern a headline last week about the
experimental airline passenger pre-screening program. Part of the
headline was that certain people rated "red" would not be allowed to
fly. That part I could not confirm.
Once again I have this image of the SS standing at the airport gates
saying "Papers!". I kind of expected it, but not anywhere this
quickly. Having to get government clearance to travel is very
reprehensive to me. And if you think it won't spread to private air
travel and automobile travel (probably under the guise of gasoline
shortages) you are optimistic.
> From AOL:
> The nationwide computer system, which will check such things as credit
reports and bank account
> activity and compare passenger names with those on government watch
lists. Under the system,
> airlines will ask fliers more information than they do now: full name,
address, phone number and date
> of birth.
> Advocates say the system will weed out dangerous people while ensuring
law-abiding citizens aren't
> given unnecessary scrutiny.
> Transportation officials say CAPPS II - Computer Assisted Passenger
Prescreening System - will
> use databases that already operate in line with privacy laws and won't
profile based on race, religion > or ethnicity. No data from the
background checks will be stored.
> Airlines already do rudimentary checks of passenger information, such
as method of payment,
> address and date the ticket was reserved.
> CAPPS II will collect data and rate each passenger's risk potential
according to a three-color system:
> green, yellow, red. When travelers check in, their names will be
punched into the system and their
> boarding passes encrypted with the ranking. TSA screeners will check
the passes at checkpoints.
These assurances really comfort me. This is from the government
that told us that social security numbers were not to be used as a form
of identification and that income tax would never be paid except from
the very rich few.
--
<<Big Charlie>>
"Democracy is a form of worship. It is the worship of jackals by
jackasses." -- H. L. Menken
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22234
From: James R. Cunningham"
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 19:32:54 -0800
Subject: Re: Copyright (was Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....))
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
A couple of problems with the publication of all Robert's works as
e-books (aside from the fact that Ginny didn't like the idea). The
copyrights are not all under one ownership; they are under several. I
sit on the Board of the foundation that Ginny established to support
the Library addition in Butler, MO. We own several of the copyrights
and I'm not sure that we would want to see those copyrights distributed
as e-books, primarily because Ginny gave them to us to help generate
income to maintain the library, and we have an obligation to accomodate
her wish. She personally appointed me to the Butler board each year to
help her with that accomodation. Ginny wanted to see all of the
juveniles published in a matching set of hardcovers and made available
to highschool libraries -- but she didn't control all those copyrights,
so didn't have time to accomplish it before her death. I still hope
that may eventually happen, and think that our board might cooperate in
making that happen if the opportunity were to arise. Ginny also
intended that the income from her remaining copyrights go to help fund
some of her long-term goals. I'd like to see her wishes fulfilled in
that regard too. The value of the copyrights has not been sucked out by
time yet, and they can still play a part in bringing some of Ginny's
wishes to life. She did not approve of e-books. Please don't take this
as a flame, but I disagree with you, and Ginny would have strongly
disagreed with you. Over the years, I've listened to her feelings on
this particular topic at length. By letter, phone, e-mail and
conversation, including near the end while hospital-sitting. She didn't
change her mind.
All the best,
Jim Cunningham
Filksinger wrote:
> On the one hand, I am heavily in favor of allowing works to enter the public
> domain before their value has been sucked from them. As a result, I oppose
> the Berne Convention and the 1976 Revision of the U.S. Copyright Act. In
> fact, I'm not certain I go with the 1909 Revision of the U.S. Copyright Act.
>
> OTOH, the only thing allowing the Heinlein Society to keep copyright is the
> same laws that I oppose. In other words, in
> most cases, by the time that a work leaves copyright, nobody wants it. You
> have to give it away, because nobody would pay for it.
>
> So, while it pains me to say so, I don't think that copyright holders,
> especially those not the original artist, have any right to maintain a
> copyright that reserves almost the entire value of the original for the
> copyright holder, instead of releasing it to the public. As a result, while
> I might choose to purchase any e-books I get from the Heinlein Society, much
> of Heinlein's work, IMHO, should be already in the public domain.
>
> Thoughts? Suggestions? Flames?
>
> --
> Filksinger
> AKA David Nasset, Sr.
> Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22235
From: Randy J. Jost"
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 20:32:51 -0700
Subject: Re: Copyright (was Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....))
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
James R. Cunningham wrote:
> A couple of problems with the publication of all Robert's works
> as e-books (aside from the fact that Ginny didn't like the idea).
> The copyrights are not all under one ownership; they are under
> several. I sit on the Board of the foundation that Ginny
> established to support the Library addition in Butler, MO. We
> own several of the copyrights and I'm not sure that we would want
> to see those copyrights distributed as e-books, primarily because
> Ginny gave them to us to help generate income to maintain the
> library, and we have an obligation to accomodate her wish. She
> personally appointed me to the Butler board each year to help her
> with that accomodation. Ginny wanted to see all of the juveniles
> published in a matching set of hardcovers and made available to
> highschool libraries -- but she didn't control all those
> copyrights, so didn't have time to accomplish it before her
> death. I still hope that may eventually happen, and think that
> our board might cooperate in making that happen if the
> opportunity were to arise. Ginny also intended that the income
> from her remaining copyrights go to help fund some of her
> long-term goals. I'd like to see her wishes fulfilled in that
> regard too. The value of the copyrights has not been sucked out
> by time yet, and they can still play a part in bringing some of
> Ginny's wishes to life. She did not approve of e-books. Please
> don't take this as a flame, but I disagree with you, and Ginny
> would have strongly disagreed with you. Over the years, I've
> listened to her feelings on this particular topic at length. By
> letter, phone, e-mail and conversation, including near the end
> while hospital-sitting. She didn't change her mind. All the
> best, Jim Cunningham
I'm glad to see this addition to the discussion by Jim, because this
was my understanding of the situation, based on the online
discussions I had with Ginny. It is also the source of my decision
not to provide the material I have to a wider audience. If the
estate, THS or some other authorized entity wants what I have been
working on over the past few years, they are welcome to it, no
compensation expected. However, it wouldn't be right to put it into
general distribution. I know that it was something that worried her
a lot, and took a lot of time and enjoyment out of her life. At
that time her life she surely didn't deserve the worry that this
issue caused her.
I think that sometimes people overlook the concept that copyright is
a means to an end, not the desired endstate. In some cases, it is a
very basic end - buying groceries for an author and his family. At
other times, there is a very altruistic end in mind. In this case,
I believe Ginny wanted the income stream from Robert's works to
support his ideas and dreams. When people ignored the copyright and
pirated Robert's works, they weren't taking something away from
Ginny. Rather, they were taking away from the things that Robert
believed in his heart of hearts. This was a much harsher blow to
her than anything someone could say about her or her decisions
concerning the copyrights and believe me, some very unkind things
have been said.
I'm sure that if a method could be found to do such a thing
properly, she would have approved of it. To date, the there is no
way to produce what I think we would all like to have - a complete
copy of Robert's works, text searchable, with annotations, and
support material, readily available at a fair price, that wouldn't
sacrifice the other efforts that are underway or planned to honor
the memory of a man and his loving partner who helped us grow up to
be better than we would have been without his words, ideas,
concepts, challenges to "loose and muddy thinking," and zest for a
better life beyond this horizon we are currently limited to. (Could
I have made that sentence longer?)
I understand the positions put forth by Filksinger, and others, and
find myself holding some views in common with them. Yet, in the
end, I have to believe that the wishes of the Heinleins should hold
sway. Besides, a thing that we attain too easily, we hold in too
light a regard. There is something to be said for requiring people
to vote with their pocketbook - it's a truer indicator of what value
we place on something than many of the other so-called touchstones.
I think Lazarus, Juabal, Manny and a long list of others, real at
least to me, would have approved.
Best regards
Randy
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22236
From: James R. Cunningham"
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 03:46:47 -0800
Subject: Re: Copyright (was Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....))
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Randy, that was very well said and expresses her beliefs very
concisely. Thank you.
All the best,
JimC
Randy J. Jost wrote:
>
> I think that sometimes people overlook the concept that copyright is
> a means to an end, not the desired endstate. In some cases, it is a
> very basic end - buying groceries for an author and his family. At
> other times, there is a very altruistic end in mind. In this case,
> I believe Ginny wanted the income stream from Robert's works to
> support his ideas and dreams. When people ignored the copyright and
> pirated Robert's works, they weren't taking something away from
> Ginny. Rather, they were taking away from the things that Robert
> believed in his heart of hearts. This was a much harsher blow to
> her than anything someone could say about her or her decisions
> concerning the copyrights and believe me, some very unkind things
> have been said.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22237
From: Wendy of NJ
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 09:27:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Copyright (was Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....))
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
If they could patent Mickey Mouse, the lenght of time for a patent would
now be life plus 75 years. Dizzy is terrified of Walt's creations moving
into the public domain.
Charles Graft wrote:
> Hi, All--
> As a holder of a patent, I state upfront that I have an ax to grind
> here.
>
> From the Constitution (Powers of Congress)
> :
>
>>To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing
>>for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right
>>to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
>
>
> I think it is reasonably clear that patent and copyright holders do
> have some rights under the constitution.
>
> There does appear to be a certain prejudice especially against
> patent holders. The argument that patents are not necessary to progress
> is quite spurious. A very good example is Thomas Edison whose patent
> royalties on an improved stock ticker were the first link in the chain
> that drove the research that resulted in electric lamps, phonographs,
> movies, and all the rest.
>
> Corporations do not spend billions (or small inventors like me
> thousands) of dollars to give the results away. If there were no
> patents, or patent protection is too limited, the alternative of trade
> secrets. See "shipstones" in "Friday". The other alternative is to
> not bother. Do you honestly think the Wright Brothers would have gone
> to all that trouble if they did not expect to get a return on it?
>
> Copyrights keep getting longer and longer. Patents have been 17
> years for what seems forever. There is a dichotomy here.
>
> --
> <<Big Charlie>>
>
> "Democracy is a form of worship. It is the worship of jackals by
> jackasses." -- H. L. Menken
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22238
From: pixelmeow
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 10:05:42 -0500
Subject: Book Exchange book list update request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Hello, all:
I would like to make sure that all donations are correctly listed on
the Book List page of the Asa Hunter Memorial Book Exchange, located:
http://pixelmeow.com/Book_Exchange/list.htm
If anyone here has donations on the Exchange, please send me an
updated list of your books so that I can be sure that I have
everything correct.
Sorry for any inconvenience, and thank you all for helping keep the
works of RAH available to all.
--
~teresa~
^..^ "Never try to outstubborn a cat." Robert A. Heinlein ^..^
http://pixelmeow.com/ http://www.heinleinsociety.org/
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22239
From: pixelmeow
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 10:22:00 -0500
Subject: Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Fri, 28 Feb 2003 00:22:39 -0500, in sff.discuss.heinlein-forum,
Gordon G. Sollars <gsollars@pobox.com> meowed:
>In article <3e5e9195.447300328@news.sff.net>, JT@REM0VE.sff.net says...
>> On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 22:44:07 -0500, Gordon G. Sollars
>> <gsollars@pobox.com> wrote:
>> >Doesn't the use of a digital watermark imply that the work is in some
>> >not-text format, such as jpeg? The problem with that is that you can't
>> >easily scan the text, e.g., to find Hazel's "serial numbers" comment.
>> >
>> As an example, a .pdf file (Adobe Acrobat) is not text, but is easily
>> readable and fully searchable.
>
>I understand that it is fully readable, but I did not know that it was
>searchable in pdf format.
>
>If we have searchable documents that cannot have signatures removed,
>then an e-publisher could require by contract that every customer
>maintain a credit account. Set a bot to work, and whenever a copy with
>my signature is found on the web, I owe for another copy.
I would be highly enthusiastic about this sort of thing; and would be
willing to offer space on my website to further development. I found
a link to a different online payment system (non-PayPal), and am going
to be looking into that very soon for part of my site.
Is thisi something that we can work on together to get it going? Or
just "what if"? :-)
--
~teresa~
^..^ "Never try to outstubborn a cat." Robert A. Heinlein ^..^
http://pixelmeow.com/ http://www.heinleinsociety.org/
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22240
From: pixelmeow
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 10:23:08 -0500
Subject: Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Thu, 27 Feb 2003 08:55:55 -0500, in sff.discuss.heinlein-forum, Eli
Hestermann <Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu> meowed:
>Palm reader has an interesting way to work around people distributing
>copies of ebooks. When a book is first opened on a PDA, the user has to
>enter the name and credit card number of the purchaser. You can give the
>book to everyone you want, but make sure you trust them with your CC
>number!
Yep. I have this software, and this is how the ebooks I got from the
Palm website worked. I got some Salvatore, and some Goodkind, IIRC;
you just have to be sure to remember which CC you used, and how you
entered your name... ;-)
--
~teresa~
^..^ "Never try to outstubborn a cat." Robert A. Heinlein ^..^
http://pixelmeow.com/ http://www.heinleinsociety.org/
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22241
From: pixelmeow
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 10:37:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Copyright (was Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....))
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
[top posted]
In light of my reading this, I am in total agreement with what has
been said here. If Ginny was against ebook format for Robert's works,
I think we should respect her wishes.
I still offer space on my site for whatever direction this
[possibility] may take.
teresa
On Tue, 04 Mar 2003 03:46:47 -0800, in sff.discuss.heinlein-forum,
"James R. Cunningham" <jrccea@bellsouth.net> meowed:
>Randy, that was very well said and expresses her beliefs very
>concisely. Thank you.
>All the best,
>JimC
>
>Randy J. Jost wrote:
>>
>> I think that sometimes people overlook the concept that copyright is
>> a means to an end, not the desired endstate. In some cases, it is a
>> very basic end - buying groceries for an author and his family. At
>> other times, there is a very altruistic end in mind. In this case,
>> I believe Ginny wanted the income stream from Robert's works to
>> support his ideas and dreams. When people ignored the copyright and
>> pirated Robert's works, they weren't taking something away from
>> Ginny. Rather, they were taking away from the things that Robert
>> believed in his heart of hearts. This was a much harsher blow to
>> her than anything someone could say about her or her decisions
>> concerning the copyrights and believe me, some very unkind things
>> have been said.
--
~teresa~
^..^ "Never try to outstubborn a cat." Robert A. Heinlein ^..^
http://pixelmeow.com/ http://www.heinleinsociety.org/
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22242
From: Eli Hestermann
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 10:41:43 -0500
Subject: Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
pixelmeow wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Feb 2003 08:55:55 -0500, in sff.discuss.heinlein-forum, Eli
> Hestermann <Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu> meowed:
>
> >Palm reader has an interesting way to work around people distributing
> >copies of ebooks. When a book is first opened on a PDA, the user has to
> >enter the name and credit card number of the purchaser. You can give the
> >book to everyone you want, but make sure you trust them with your CC
> >number!
>
> Yep. I have this software, and this is how the ebooks I got from the
> Palm website worked. I got some Salvatore, and some Goodkind, IIRC;
> you just have to be sure to remember which CC you used, and how you
> entered your name... ;-)
Indeed. My middle initial caused some problems. [g]
--
Eli V. Hestermann
Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu
"Vita brevis est, ars longa." -Seneca
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22243
From: pixelmeow
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 10:45:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Snowy update
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 12:10:05 -0800, in sff.discuss.heinlein-forum,
"James R. Cunningham" <jrccea@bellsouth.net> meowed:
>Snowy has become a lapcat. Very unlike Snowy. Ginny would be
>flabbergasted. She commented repeatedly that he wasn't a lapcat. I
>think he misses her.
I think that is very possible. Our cat, Tigger, sits by the door and
waits for my husband if he's not home when he should be. If he stays
out overnight, Tigger gets downright twitchy.
>I know I do. For years she was always available at the other end of the
>phone, or after a few computer keystrokes. She reminded me of my
>grandmother, and I don't think I'm going to feel closure till after we
>get her ashes spread.
When/where will this happen? Is it a private event, or may those of
us who only knew her online come?
--
~teresa~
^..^ "Never try to outstubborn a cat." Robert A. Heinlein ^..^
http://pixelmeow.com/ http://www.heinleinsociety.org/
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22244
From: pixelmeow
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 10:46:55 -0500
Subject: Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Tue, 04 Mar 2003 10:41:43 -0500, in sff.discuss.heinlein-forum, Eli
Hestermann <Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu> meowed:
>pixelmeow wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 27 Feb 2003 08:55:55 -0500, in sff.discuss.heinlein-forum, Eli
>> Hestermann <Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu> meowed:
>>
>> >Palm reader has an interesting way to work around people distributing
>> >copies of ebooks. When a book is first opened on a PDA, the user has to
>> >enter the name and credit card number of the purchaser. You can give the
>> >book to everyone you want, but make sure you trust them with your CC
>> >number!
>>
>> Yep. I have this software, and this is how the ebooks I got from the
>> Palm website worked. I got some Salvatore, and some Goodkind, IIRC;
>> you just have to be sure to remember which CC you used, and how you
>> entered your name... ;-)
>
>Indeed. My middle initial caused some problems. [g]
*snicker* Mine was the fact that the last four digits of the card I
used to buy the books has changed. Glad I remember those digits...
--
~teresa~
^..^ "Never try to outstubborn a cat." Robert A. Heinlein ^..^
http://pixelmeow.com/ http://www.heinleinsociety.org/
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22245
From: John Bartley K7AAY
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 09:24:52 -0800
Subject: Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Fri, 28 Feb 2003 00:22:39 -0500, Gordon G. Sollars
<gsollars@pobox.com> wrote:
>In article <3e5e9195.447300328@news.sff.net>, JT@REM0VE.sff.net says...
>> On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 22:44:07 -0500, Gordon G. Sollars
>> <gsollars@pobox.com> wrote:
<snip>
>> As an example, a .pdf file (Adobe Acrobat) is not text, but is easily
>> readable and fully searchable.
>
>I understand that it is fully readable, but I did not know that it was
>searchable in pdf format.
<snip>
Depends on how you make the PDF. Some PDFs have the text embedded and
are searchable. Other PDFs are just the bitmap and therefore are not
searchable. If you start with an RTF file, Word or WordPerfect
document, you can create the text-searchable variety at your
discretion.
..
--
John Bartley, K7AAY, telcom admin, PDX-OR - views mine.
"Gozer the Gozerian: good evening. As a duly designated representative of the
City, County and State of New York, I order you to cease any and all
supernatural activities and return forthwith to your place of origin or to the
nearest convenient parallel dimension."
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22246
From: anonymous@sff.net (Anonymous Visitor)
Date: 4 Mar 2003 22:56:28 GMT
Subject: Re: Copyright (was Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....))
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Jim Cunningham wrote:
************
The value of the copyrights has not been sucked out by
time yet, and they can still play a part in bringing some of Ginny's
wishes to life.
************
I am glad that the copyrights maintain this value. It is easy to be in favor
of such things, when it is your personal projects, your friends, or yourself
who are the beneficiaries, and easy to be against them when it is corrupt
"big business" that benefit. Thus, if the wishes of Robert and Ginny Heinlein,
or the income of Leslie Fish, are supported by such things, I am very glad
such support maintains. That doesn't, I'm sorry to say, alter my position
overall.
This sentence seems to indicate that you support keeping the copyright so
long as "The value of the copyrights has not been sucked out by time yet...."
It therefore follows that you are arguing for copyrights that do not descend
to the public domain until they _have_ had all "value...sucked out by time...."
I want the Heinlein Society to have this value. Or Leslie Fish. Or B.C.
from his patent. Or Michael Calligaro. Etc. That doesn't change my overall
position that copyrights and patents should not extend nearly so far as
copyrights do today.
************
She did not approve of e-books. Please don't take this
as a flame, but I disagree with you, and Ginny would have strongly
disagreed with you. Over the years, I've listened to her feelings on
this particular topic at length. By letter, phone, e-mail and
conversation, including near the end while hospital-sitting. She didn't
change her mind.
************
You misunderstand. I do not, and have never, supported the giving up of
the copyright to Heinlein's work, so long as it exists. Nor am I promoting
e-books; indeed, they are barely even tangental to my position.
I find myself in the position, interestingly enough, of Thomas Jefferson.
Jefferson kept slaves, and reaped the benefits of being a slave owner (unproven
claims in either direction about Sally Hemmings not withstanding). He also
fought against the existence of the very institution of slavery, as a political
figure. He wanted to end an institution that benefited him personally, but
could not bring himself to give up said benefits.
Much as a man who despises tax loopholes might nevertheless use them, or
a strict libertarian who is glad that a poor friend can get food stamps
and Welfare benefits, I find myself in the position of wanting certain friends
and respected others to have the benefits of extended copyrights, but at
the same time wish that, as a whole, such extended copyrights didn't exist.
I suppose, to be honest, what I want is for said friends and respected others
to have unlimited benefits from copyrights (and patents, BC ), while forcing
everyone else to abide by limitations I think are best for the common good.
I am human enough to want that. I'm also idealist enough that, if it was
up to me (and I'm not saying it _should be_ up to me), patents wouldn't
change much from that 17 years (though I have some thoughts on that), and
copyright would probably be back to the original 14+14 years.
IOW, I want what is best for my friends and what is best for society, but
admit that the two are diametrically opposed. Ah, well.:)
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22247
From: Charles Graft
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 13:35:35 -0500
Subject: Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Eli Hestermann wrote:
> Indeed. My middle initial caused some problems. [g]
>
> --
> Eli V. Hestermann
> Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu
> "Vita brevis est, ars longa." -Seneca
Eli--
Now what is wrong with a middle initial of "V"? <VBG>
I also get problems with III, iii, 3rd and systems such as airlines that
remove spaces from name fields and asks for Mr. Graffiti or some such
variation.
Question. Does this require a currently valid credit card number? As in,
does it check it each time you open the file? Two reasons that I am asking . .
.. Suppose I use a credit card number that I cancel next week? The second item
is that I have heard of a credit card service that issues one time use credit
card numbers to people concerned about on line security. You use the card
once (or at one merchant; I'm not sure which) then it is invalid for other use.
--
<<Big Charlie>>
Charles V. Graft III
"Democracy is a form of worship. It is the worship of jackals by jackasses."
-- H. L. Menken
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22248
From: Eli Hestermann
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 14:51:46 -0500
Subject: Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Charles Graft wrote:
> Question. Does this require a currently valid credit card number?
AFAIK, it just has to be the number used to purchase the ebook. I think it's used
as a password to decrypt the book itself.
--
Eli V. Hestermann
Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu
"Vita brevis est, ars longa." -Seneca
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22249
From: Gordon G. Sollars
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 21:51:21 -0500
Subject: Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
In article <e0h96v82nqc139q25apsuh8m80crn43774@4ax.com>,
WebmasterSPAM@BLOCKpixelmeow.com says...
> On Fri, 28 Feb 2003 00:22:39 -0500, in sff.discuss.heinlein-forum,
> Gordon G. Sollars <gsollars@pobox.com> meowed:
....
> >If we have searchable documents that cannot have signatures removed,
> >then an e-publisher could require by contract that every customer
> >maintain a credit account. Set a bot to work, and whenever a copy with
> >my signature is found on the web, I owe for another copy.
>
> I would be highly enthusiastic about this sort of thing; and would be
> willing to offer space on my website to further development. I found
> a link to a different online payment system (non-PayPal), and am going
> to be looking into that very soon for part of my site.
>
> Is thisi something that we can work on together to get it going? Or
> just "what if"? :-)
Just a "what if" for me. we can't make a move without the copyright
holders on this. And all else is "just a matter of programming".
--
Gordon Sollars
gsollars@pobox.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22250
From: Gordon G. Sollars
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 21:53:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Snowy update
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
In article <udi96vsih8trpu41prk5d7qo91rtrt1fdl@4ax.com>,
WebmasterSPAM@BLOCKpixelmeow.com says...
> I think that is very possible. Our cat, Tigger, sits by the door and
> waits for my husband if he's not home when he should be. If he stays
> out overnight, Tigger gets downright twitchy.
And you? ;-)
--
Gordon Sollars
gsollars@pobox.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22251
From: James R. Cunningham"
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 00:02:12 -0800
Subject: Re: Copyright (was Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....))
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Anonymous Visitor wrote:
> I am glad that the copyrights maintain this value. It is easy to be in favor
> of such things, when it is your personal projects, your friends, or yourself
> who are the beneficiaries,
Tain't a personal project, and there's no personal gain. And I'm damn
sure not a beneficiary (except for a couple of living room sofas and
some kitchen utensils). I'm just doing something because Ginny asked me
to. And she's not the beneficiary either. All this stuff was a dead
expense to her, to the tune of several million dollars. It's a dead
expense to me too, but not to that extent, thank god.
> That doesn't, I'm sorry to say, alter my position overall.
Fine by me. I'm not an evangelist.
> This sentence seems to indicate that you support keeping the copyright so
> long as "The value of the copyrights has not been sucked out by time yet...."
Quite so.
> It therefore follows that you are arguing for copyrights that do not descend
> to the public domain until they _have_ had all "value...sucked out by time...."
Not quite so. If they are copyrights that don't pertain to achieving
Ginny's goals, I don't care diddly about them, one way or the other.
Just cause 2+2=2*2, that don't mean that 2+3=2*3.
> You misunderstand.
If you say so. Please keep in mind that I asked that you not take what
I said as a flame. I fear that you have not changed my interpretation
of Ginny's wishes or opinions.
ATB,
JimC
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22252
From: SpaceCadet
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 08:23:29 -0600
Subject: Shuttle Photos
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
There are some interesting photos of debris from the
Columbia on the Columbia Accident Investigation Board's
website. The URL is http://www.caib.us/news/photos/index.html
The tire photos are especially interesting.
Carol
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22253
From: Gordon G. Sollars
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 13:49:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Copyright (was Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....))
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
In article <3E670084.51FE6714@bellsouth.net>, jrccea@bellsouth.net
says...
> If you say so. Please keep in mind that I asked that you not take what
> I said as a flame. I fear that you have not changed my interpretation
> of Ginny's wishes or opinions.
I fear that you have misunderstood Filk's post, if you thought that
anything in it was intended to change your interpretation.
--
Gordon Sollars
gsollars@pobox.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22254
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 00:39:08 GMT
Subject: Re: Shuttle Photos
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Thu, 06 Mar 2003 08:23:29 -0600, SpaceCadet
<cadozo@planet-save.com> wrote:
>The tire photos are especially interesting.
>
You said it! The difference between the right & left side tires is
amazing.
The forensic work involved in this investigation just blows my mind.
I wonder what probability will be assigned to the final best
conclusion?
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22255
From: James R. Cunningham"
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 23:11:30 -0800
Subject: Re: Copyright (was Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....))
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
More than likely so. That's one of the downsides of posting to a forum
without lurking first, to get a feel for all the personalities.
All the best,
Jim
Gordon G. Sollars wrote:
> I fear that you have misunderstood Filk's post, if you thought that
> anything in it was intended to change your interpretation.
>
> --
> Gordon Sollars
> gsollars@pobox.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22256
From: Bill Dauphin
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 14:55:31 -0500
Subject: Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On 2/28/03 12:22 AM, in article MPG.18c8bc28a7bdc229989827@news.sff.net,
"Gordon G. Sollars" <gsollars@pobox.com> wrote:
> In article <3e5e9195.447300328@news.sff.net>, JT@REM0VE.sff.net says...
>> As an example, a .pdf file (Adobe Acrobat) is not text, but is easily
>> readable and fully searchable.
>
> I understand that it is fully readable, but I did not know that it was
> searchable in pdf format.
Not only is it searchable, but you can copy-and-paste editable text into
other documents. If you have the full Acrobat application (as opposed to
just the free Reader), you can also modify the text within the PDF or save
the file as RTF. Of course, the Acrobat Distiller also allows you to set
protections when you make a new file that can disable some or all of those
capabilities (you can actually create a PDF that can only be read onscreen,
and only by someone who has the password).
Of course, all this assumes the PDF was created from an editable source
document in the first place. You may have seen PDFs that weren't searchable
because all the really were was a bitmapped page image (from a scanner or
fax machine, for instance) saved in PDF format. Even then, Acrobat has a
function called "Capture" that can convert such an image to a "real" PDF
file by performing OCR and hiding the text data under the image.
Acrobat already has something called digital signatures (a function we don't
use at my work, so I'm no expert), but I think it has more to do with
routing a file for review comments than with the sort of access control JT
is talking about.
-JovBill
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22257
From: Filksinger"
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 18:29:34 -0800
Subject: Re: Copyright (was Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....))
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Let me start by saying that I _want_ you to use that copyright to the
utmost, to achieve any aim Ginny indicated she wanted you to. If she said
she didn't want e-books made because she felt her husband would be against
electrons, I'd still say to carry her wishes out.
James R. Cunningham wrote:
> Anonymous Visitor wrote:
>
> > I am glad that the copyrights maintain this value. It is easy to be
> > in favor of such things, when it is your personal projects, your
> > friends, or yourself who are the beneficiaries,
>
> Tain't a personal project, and there's no personal gain.
You are personally carrying out the project, are you not?
Also, the term "Personal projects" is, perhaps, a poor term. It was supposed
to mean, "projects you personally support, including moral support".
And "personal gain" is a very slippery term.:)
And I'm damn
> sure not a beneficiary (except for a couple of living room sofas and
> some kitchen utensils). I'm just doing something because Ginny asked
> me
> to. And she's not the beneficiary either. All this stuff was a dead
> expense to her, to the tune of several million dollars. It's a dead
> expense to me too, but not to that extent, thank god.
There is no benefit, to yourself or _anything you want done_ (including
Ginny's wishes), to keeping the copyright?
> > That doesn't, I'm sorry to say, alter my position overall.
>
> Fine by me. I'm not an evangelist.
Maybe I am.:)
> > This sentence seems to indicate that you support keeping the
> > copyright so
> > long as "The value of the copyrights has not been sucked out by
> > time yet...."
>
> Quite so.
>
> > It therefore follows that you are arguing for copyrights that do
> > not descend to the public domain until they _have_ had all
> > "value...sucked out by time...."
>
> Not quite so. If they are copyrights that don't pertain to achieving
> Ginny's goals, I don't care diddly about them, one way or the other.
> Just cause 2+2=2*2, that don't mean that 2+3=2*3.
Ah. On the one hand, I agree, because that it the same position I take (I
want all benefits from the copyright to be used to support Ginny's wishes,
too, and don't "care diddly" about the others).
On the other hand, the copyrights that benefit Ginny only exist so long as
the others do, too. You can't have one with out the other.
> > You misunderstand.
>
> If you say so. Please keep in mind that I asked that you not take
> what
> I said as a flame. I fear that you have not changed my interpretation
> of Ginny's wishes or opinions.
1. I most certainly do _not_ take this as a flame. You'd have to be directly
insulting for me to take it as such.
2. I do not, and have never, suggested that you should change your
interpretation of "Ginny's wishes or opinions". Please use those copyrights
to the absolute fullest so long as they exist, to carry out her wishes in
all ways. This would include, though I can't imagine that this applies, ways
that I would oppose, if somehow that were the case. I support her wishes
being carried out with respect to the estate _in all ways_.
I am _not_, in any ways, opposed to your using those copyrights in whatever
way she wished. I am opposed to the laws that allow those copyrights to last
so long as they will, but so long as they exist, please used them to their
utmost.
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22258
From: David M. Silver"
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 18:49:36 -0800
Subject: Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Top posted:
Is there a good text that clearly explains (for dummies like me) all these
capabilities, Bill? Other than what comes with the application?
David
Bill Dauphin wrote:
> On 2/28/03 12:22 AM, in article MPG.18c8bc28a7bdc229989827@news.sff.net,
> "Gordon G. Sollars" <gsollars@pobox.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <3e5e9195.447300328@news.sff.net>, JT@REM0VE.sff.net says...
> >> As an example, a .pdf file (Adobe Acrobat) is not text, but is easily
> >> readable and fully searchable.
> >
> > I understand that it is fully readable, but I did not know that it was
> > searchable in pdf format.
>
> Not only is it searchable, but you can copy-and-paste editable text into
> other documents. If you have the full Acrobat application (as opposed to
> just the free Reader), you can also modify the text within the PDF or save
> the file as RTF. Of course, the Acrobat Distiller also allows you to set
> protections when you make a new file that can disable some or all of those
> capabilities (you can actually create a PDF that can only be read onscreen,
> and only by someone who has the password).
>
> Of course, all this assumes the PDF was created from an editable source
> document in the first place. You may have seen PDFs that weren't searchable
> because all the really were was a bitmapped page image (from a scanner or
> fax machine, for instance) saved in PDF format. Even then, Acrobat has a
> function called "Capture" that can convert such an image to a "real" PDF
> file by performing OCR and hiding the text data under the image.
>
> Acrobat already has something called digital signatures (a function we don't
> use at my work, so I'm no expert), but I think it has more to do with
> routing a file for review comments than with the sort of access control JT
> is talking about.
>
> -JovBill
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22259
From: Bill Dauphin
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 10:25:31 -0500
Subject: Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On 3/7/03 9:49 PM, in article 3E695A40.6B0EE554@verizon.net, "David M.
Silver" <ag.plusone@verizon.net> wrote:
> Top posted:
>
> Is there a good text that clearly explains (for dummies like me) all these
> capabilities, Bill?
I'd be very surprised if there wasn't an Acrobat book in the "For Dummies"
series or its competition, the "For the Complete Idiot" series, but I
haven't seen either. Check the computer books section at your local Borders
or Barnes & Noble: Acrobat is such a popular application that I'd guess
you'll find *plenty* of 3rd-party manuals.
I took an Acrobat class a few years ago and the textbook, from Adobe's
"Classroom in a Book" series, was quite good. That was an Acrobat 4
reference, but I'm sure there's an Acrobat 5 edition out. The "Classroom in
a Book" books come with samples and exercises on CD, but you'll need the
full Acrobat application (not just Reader) to work through them.
-JovBill
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22260
From: Wendy of NJ
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 13:22:19 -0500
Subject: Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Bill Dauphin wrote:
> On 3/7/03 9:49 PM, in article 3E695A40.6B0EE554@verizon.net, "David M.
> Silver" <ag.plusone@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Top posted:
>>
>>Is there a good text that clearly explains (for dummies like me) all these
>>capabilities, Bill?
>
>
> I'd be very surprised if there wasn't an Acrobat book in the "For Dummies"
> series or its competition, the "For the Complete Idiot" series, but I
> haven't seen either. Check the computer books section at your local Borders
> or Barnes & Noble: Acrobat is such a popular application that I'd guess
> you'll find *plenty* of 3rd-party manuals.
>
> I took an Acrobat class a few years ago and the textbook, from Adobe's
> "Classroom in a Book" series, was quite good. That was an Acrobat 4
> reference, but I'm sure there's an Acrobat 5 edition out. The "Classroom in
> a Book" books come with samples and exercises on CD, but you'll need the
> full Acrobat application (not just Reader) to work through them.
>
> -JovBill
>
I'll second that. Adobe's computer-based training is excellent! I've taught
myself FrameMaker, Acrobat, Photoshop, Illustrator, and Premiere that way.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22261
From: Gordon G. Sollars
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 23:30:04 -0500
Subject: Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
In article <BA8E6363.689-dauphinb@ix.netcom.com>, dauphinb@ix.netcom.com
says...
....
> Of course, all this assumes the PDF was created from an editable source
> document in the first place. You may have seen PDFs that weren't searchable
> because all the really were was a bitmapped page image (from a scanner or
> fax machine, for instance) saved in PDF format. Even then, Acrobat has a
> function called "Capture" that can convert such an image to a "real" PDF
> file by performing OCR and hiding the text data under the image.
Thanks much for all the info, Bill, but this is going in the "wrong"
direction for the idea at hand. What we want is a file that cannot be
OCR'ed, with a "signature" that cannot be removed.
--
Gordon Sollars
gsollars@pobox.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22262
From: James R. Cunningham"
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 22:55:03 -0800
Subject: Re: Copyright (was Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....))
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Thanks, David. I was afraid I had inadvertantly insulted you or hurt
your feelings. I'd never intentionally do that to anyone, but I
sometimes think I have a knack for doing it accidentally.
Filksinger wrote:
> 1. I most certainly do _not_ take this as a flame. You'd have to be directly insulting for me to take it as such.
Thanks. I really was worried that I might have stuck my foot in my
mouth.
> I support her wishes being carried out with respect to the estate _in all ways_.
Me too. She was a remarkably generous person, and several groups have
directly benefited. I was most thrilled by the establishment of the
Heinlein Chair in Aerospace Engineering at the Naval Academy, becase I
think it will affect the largest number of young folks for the longest
period of time.
> , but so long as they exist, please used them to their utmost.
I'm for that, at least as far as her copyrights were concerned. I'm
still hopeful that someday the juveniles might get back under common
control so that we could see a matched set for high school libraries. I
think the durned things are still readable and have educatonal value.
Course, I might be a tad predjudiced.
JimC
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22263
From: Charles Graft
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 10:22:14 -0500
Subject: Lost?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
All--
Anybody have a current address or e-mail address for Brian
Scherrer? The one I have appears obsolete.
--
<<Big Charlie>>
"Democracy is a form of worship. It is the worship of jackals by
jackasses." -- H. L. Menken
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22264
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 20:07:04 -0500
Subject: Re: Lost?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Charlie: My address for Brian is from December 2001, 15 months
old.
I will send it in private.
Ed J
On Mon, 10 Mar 2003 10:22:14 -0500, Charles Graft
<chasgraft@aol.com> wrote:
>All--
> Anybody have a current address or e-mail address for Brian
>Scherrer? The one I have appears obsolete.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22265
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 01:30:56 GMT
Subject: Re: Lost?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Mon, 10 Mar 2003 20:07:04 -0500, Ed Johnson
<eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote:
>Charlie: My address for Brian is from December 2001, 15 months
>old.
>I will send it in private.
>
>Ed J
>
>On Mon, 10 Mar 2003 10:22:14 -0500, Charles Graft
><chasgraft@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>All--
>> Anybody have a current address or e-mail address for Brian
>>Scherrer? The one I have appears obsolete.
>
I have work & personal from January 2003. I guess gathering the
payments does have a few "advantages". <G>
They're in the e-mail to BC.
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22266
From: Bill Dauphin
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 21:51:55 -0500
Subject: Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On 3/8/03 11:30 PM, in article MPG.18d48d54a3559e9198982d@news.sff.net,
"Gordon G. Sollars" <gsollars@pobox.com> wrote:
> this is going in the "wrong"
> direction for the idea at hand. What we want is a file that cannot be
> OCR'ed, with a "signature" that cannot be removed.
Hmmm... I was just responding to the suggestion that PDF wasn't searchable;
not claiming it was the ultimate answer for e-book security. PDF *does* have
some security features that might help, and IIRC there's an Adobe PDF-based
"eBook" format that may even be better (though I don't know the details),
but that's not really what I meant to be addressing.
If you have an e-book -- whatever the file format -- that isn't searchable,
hotlinked, etc., it has (IMHO) very little utility beyond that of a paper
book... at least for the purposes of this discussion. And pretty much *any*
bitmapped text image that's clear enough to read can be OCRed if you run it
through OmniPage or something similar... but then, anyone with enough
patience can OCR paper books now.
IMHO the key is not to try to make the files uncopyable -- crackers will
always be one step ahead of the protection -- but to make the books [1]
conspicuously traceable to the legit owner, so that booklegging puts them at
real legal risk, and [2] cheap enough that the incentive to bootleg is very
small. Because the recurring production costs (once the thing is written and
typeset) are virtually zero, it might well be possible to make e-books MUCH
cheaper than current paper books while actually increasing profits to the
copyright owners.
That said, I think the real market for e-books is in two distinct areas:
Scholars, for whom the ability to search, cross-reference, pull quotes,
etc., is critical on the one hand, and readers of disposable genre fiction
(by which I mean stuff like Harlequin romances, etc.; not enduring genre
fiction). The people who love to read for reading's sake will *always* want
"real" books to caress and collect.
-JovBill
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22267
From: Bill Dauphin
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 21:53:57 -0500
Subject: Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On 3/8/03 1:22 PM, in article 3E6A34DB.4070602@hotmail.com, "Wendy of NJ"
<voxwoman@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Bill Dauphin wrote:
>> On 3/7/03 9:49 PM, in article 3E695A40.6B0EE554@verizon.net, "David M.
>> Silver" <ag.plusone@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Top posted:
>>>
>>> Is there a good text that clearly explains (for dummies like me) all these
>>> capabilities, Bill?
>>
>>
>> I'd be very surprised if there wasn't an Acrobat book in the "For Dummies"
>> series or its competition, the "For the Complete Idiot" series, but I
>> haven't seen either. Check the computer books section at your local Borders
>> or Barnes & Noble: Acrobat is such a popular application that I'd guess
>> you'll find *plenty* of 3rd-party manuals.
>>
>> I took an Acrobat class a few years ago and the textbook, from Adobe's
>> "Classroom in a Book" series, was quite good. That was an Acrobat 4
>> reference, but I'm sure there's an Acrobat 5 edition out. The "Classroom in
>> a Book" books come with samples and exercises on CD, but you'll need the
>> full Acrobat application (not just Reader) to work through them.
>>
>> -JovBill
>>
> I'll second that. Adobe's computer-based training is excellent! I've taught
> myself FrameMaker, Acrobat, Photoshop, Illustrator, and Premiere that way.
>
Actually, I checked *my* local Borders and found the CiaB for Acrobat 4, but
not Acrobat 5. I found that odd, since the latter is more than a year old.
In any case, there were, as I suspected, a large handful of other 3rd-party
guides to Acrobat 5.
-JovBill
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22268
From: Stewart Sparks"
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 00:14:37 -0600
Subject: Re: Shuttle Photos
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
That's well put, JT. I don't know if you remember, but I served on
submarines in the US Navy. The USS Thresher and the USS Scorpion were
nuclear submarines that were lost at sea in the 1960s, both are now
considered casualties of the Cold War. A surface ship, the USS Skylark, was
listening to the Thresher as she sank in 1963, and recieved communications
from the sub as the crew fought to surface after an initial flooding
casualty. The Navy believes that moisture in a high pressure air line
caused an explosion that sealed the Thresher's fate, but that is still
conjecture. The Scorpion sank far out in the Atlantic, on her way back to
Norfolk from the vicinity of the Azores. It took months to find the
wreckage, and after 35 years the Navy still doesn't know what caused the
disaster, although the best guess was a faulty torpedo design. Despite not
knowing conclusively the causes of these disasters, the Navy took steps to
correct the problems they knew about. The Scorpion was the last US nuclear
sub lost.
I don't think they will be able to prove conclusively what caused the loss
of the Columbia, but they will once again improve the safety of space
travel.
Stew
"JT" <JT@REM0VE.sff.net> wrote in message
news:3e67e992.1059783718@news.sff.net...
> On Thu, 06 Mar 2003 08:23:29 -0600, SpaceCadet
> <cadozo@planet-save.com> wrote:
>
> >The tire photos are especially interesting.
> >
> You said it! The difference between the right & left side tires is
> amazing.
>
> The forensic work involved in this investigation just blows my mind.
> I wonder what probability will be assigned to the final best
> conclusion?
>
> JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22269
From: Gordon G. Sollars
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 10:05:52 -0500
Subject: Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
In article <BA92B97B.697-dauphinb@ix.netcom.com>, dauphinb@ix.netcom.com
says...
> On 3/8/03 11:30 PM, in article MPG.18d48d54a3559e9198982d@news.sff.net,
> "Gordon G. Sollars" <gsollars@pobox.com> wrote:
>
> > this is going in the "wrong"
> > direction for the idea at hand. What we want is a file that cannot be
> > OCR'ed, with a "signature" that cannot be removed.
>
> Hmmm... I was just responding to the suggestion that PDF wasn't searchable;
Right, and, as I said, thanks for the information.
....
> If you have an e-book -- whatever the file format -- that isn't searchable,
> hotlinked, etc., it has (IMHO) very little utility beyond that of a paper
> book... at least for the purposes of this discussion.
Right. We want it to be searchable at least.
....
> IMHO the key is not to try to make the files uncopyable -- crackers will
> always be one step ahead of the protection
I suspect that this is true. But it is an interesting problem.
> -- but to make the books [1]
> conspicuously traceable to the legit owner, so that booklegging puts them at
> real legal risk,
That's why I was talking in terms of digital "watermarks" or other
steganography so that copies could be traced to someone who was at least
negligent, if not criminal. The problem is combining this with
searchability.
> and [2] cheap enough that the incentive to bootleg is very
> small. Because the recurring production costs (once the thing is written and
> typeset) are virtually zero, it might well be possible to make e-books MUCH
> cheaper than current paper books while actually increasing profits to the
> copyright owners.
Could be. But the same technology that makes them cheaper makes copying
them much cheaper as well.
--
Gordon Sollars
gsollars@pobox.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22270
From: Charles Graft
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 13:00:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Lost?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Thanks, All--
I have made contact and all is fine.
--
<<Big Charlie>>
"Democracy is a form of worship. It is the worship of jackals by
jackasses." -- H. L. Menken
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22271
From: David M. Silver"
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 21:11:24 -0800
Subject: Re: E-Books (was Re: Looking for a quote....)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Bill and Wendy:
Thank you both! I'll check out the larger B & N for texts on Acrobat (yeah, I
have the full application) nearby next chance.
David
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22272
From: Filksinger"
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:25:20 -0800
Subject: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
OK, I'm having an online discussion with someone as to how "obscure" some
female "power figures" are, meaning women who are/were action heroes, like
Xena, Wonder Woman, or The Bionic Woman. In that context, who would/wouldn't
consider these characters to be "obscure"?
Foxy Brown
Coffy
Cynthia Rothrock
If you consider these obscure, let me know. If you don't even know who they
are, all the better. If you think that I'm out of touch for considering them
obscure, tell me that, too.
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22273
From: David M. Silver"
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 16:10:58 -0800
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Filksinger wrote:
> OK, I'm having an online discussion with someone as to how "obscure" some
> female "power figures" are, meaning women who are/were action heroes, like
> Xena, Wonder Woman, or The Bionic Woman. In that context, who would/wouldn't
> consider these characters to be "obscure"?
>
> Foxy Brown
> Coffy
> Cynthia Rothrock
>
> If you consider these obscure, let me know. If you don't even know who they
> are, all the better. If you think that I'm out of touch for considering them
> obscure, tell me that, too.
Me, me, waving out-of-touch hand. OTOH, how could I not know Lindsey Wagner --
my wife once told both me and my daughter we looked like eight-years-old when
watching her every move on TV with eyes the size of dinner plates. She was half
right. Then, the next year, my daughter turned nine . . .
David
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22274
From: Jane Davitt
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 22:28:58 -0500
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Filksinger wrote:
> OK, I'm having an online discussion with someone as to how "obscure" some
> female "power figures" are, meaning women who are/were action heroes, like
> Xena, Wonder Woman, or The Bionic Woman. In that context, who would/wouldn't
> consider these characters to be "obscure"?
>
> Foxy Brown
> Coffy
> Cynthia Rothrock
>
> If you consider these obscure, let me know. If you don't even know who they
> are, all the better. If you think that I'm out of touch for considering them
> obscure, tell me that, too.
I've only heard of the first one in connection with another hero; Buffy.
The Slayer Spike kills in the NY subway in 1977 is often compared to her.
The other two I don't know at all.
Jane
--
Read my Buffy the Vampire Slayer fiction at
http://members.rogers.com/jdavitt01/index.html
http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=231516
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22275
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 23:54:53 -0500
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message
news:3e6fc3ce.0@news.sff.net...
> OK, I'm having an online discussion with someone as to how "obscure" some
> female "power figures" are, meaning women who are/were action heroes, like
> Xena, Wonder Woman, or The Bionic Woman. In that context, who
would/wouldn't
> consider these characters to be "obscure"?
>
> Foxy Brown
> Coffy
> Cynthia Rothrock
>
The first one is the only one I've heard of. Can you explain who the other
two might be?
WJaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22276
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 00:00:38 -0500
Subject: Don't forget the Hugos!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Just a friendly reminder, the Hugo nominations close on March 31. If you
were a member of last year's Worldcon, ConJose, you are allowed to nominate
books, stories, magazines, etc. for the awards. You can also nominate if you
are a member of this year's Worldcon, Torcon.
ConJose mailed out ballots, Torcon included them in the most recent Progress
Report. There is also an online ballot form at http://www.torcon3.on.ca/
Also, this year, the Dramatic Presentation Hugo has been split into Long
Form and Short Form categories. So Buffy, Angel, Smallville, Twilight Zone,
etc. will not be up against Lord of the Rings II.
WJaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22277
From: noone"
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 00:29:46 -0500
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Foxy Brown
Coffy
Cynthia Rothrock"
i'll have to confess abysmal ignorance, i've never heard of any of the three
"gunner"
---------------------------
"Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message
news:3e6fc3ce.0@news.sff.net...
> OK, I'm having an online discussion with someone as to how "obscure" some
> female "power figures" are, meaning women who are/were action heroes, like
> Xena, Wonder Woman, or The Bionic Woman. In that context, who
would/wouldn't
> consider these characters to be "obscure"?
>
> Foxy Brown
> Coffy
> Cynthia Rothrock
>
> If you consider these obscure, let me know. If you don't even know who
they
> are, all the better. If you think that I'm out of touch for considering
them
> obscure, tell me that, too.
>
> --
> Filksinger
> AKA David Nasset, Sr.
> Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22278
From: Wendy of NJ
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 08:32:49 -0500
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I must be an UberFemGeek, then. I don't think they're obscure at all!
(now the chick in the Fantastic Four -- *she's* obscure!)
Those 3 are the most "famous" of all the female superheroes - they each
had a TV series of their own (eventually), and they ran for more than 1
season (I think Xena went 10 years?)
What about Supergirl, Batgirl, Storm, Jane Grey, Rogue, Blossom, Bubbles
and Buttercup???? (and for that matter Jeannie and Samantha?)
I think being female has something to do with it -- especially growing
up in the 60's. Girls are hungry for role models, and back then, there
were darned few of them.
Of the 3 superheroes you mentioned, 2 of them were "spin offs" from Male
superhero shows or comics: Xena used to be a bad guy on the Kevin Sorbo
Hercules, and the Bionic Woman was a spin off from "the 6 Million Dollar
Man". Wonder Woman was the only one who had her own show from the
beginning, and it was likely due to the success of other "strong women
crime fighter" shows like Charlie's Angel's.
And yes, I watch Wayyy too much TV.
-Wendy of nJ
Filksinger wrote:
> OK, I'm having an online discussion with someone as to how "obscure" some
> female "power figures" are, meaning women who are/were action heroes, like
> Xena, Wonder Woman, or The Bionic Woman. In that context, who would/wouldn't
> consider these characters to be "obscure"?
>
> Foxy Brown
> Coffy
> Cynthia Rothrock
>
> If you consider these obscure, let me know. If you don't even know who they
> are, all the better. If you think that I'm out of touch for considering them
> obscure, tell me that, too.
>
> --
> Filksinger
> AKA David Nasset, Sr.
> Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22279
From: ais3@po.cwru.edu (Amy Sheldon)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 14:19:03 GMT
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:
>OK, I'm having an online discussion with someone as to how "obscure" some
>female "power figures" are, meaning women who are/were action heroes, like
>Xena, Wonder Woman, or The Bionic Woman. In that context, who would/wouldn't
>consider these characters to be "obscure"?
>
>Foxy Brown
>Coffy
>Cynthia Rothrock
I'm old enough to remember the blaxplotation films of the 1970s so the
first is familiar, but I've never heard of the other two.
--
Amy Sheldon
Amy.Sheldon@sff.net
http://www.sff.net/people/Amy.Sheldon/
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22280
From: Randy J. Jost"
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 07:44:06 -0700
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Filksinger wrote:
> OK, I'm having an online discussion with someone as to how "obscure" some
> female "power figures" are, meaning women who are/were action heroes, like
> Xena, Wonder Woman, or The Bionic Woman. In that context, who would/wouldn't
> consider these characters to be "obscure"?
>
> Foxy Brown
> Coffy
> Cynthia Rothrock
>
> If you consider these obscure, let me know. If you don't even know who they
> are, all the better. If you think that I'm out of touch for considering them
> obscure, tell me that, too.
>
> --
> Filksinger
> AKA David Nasset, Sr.
> Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
>
>
Filk,
I think these two people, Pam Grier and Cynthia Rothrock are
probably fairly well known to those who followed the Blaxploitation
movies of the 70's (in the case of Pam Grier) and the early
"kick-butt" women roles of the late 70's early 80's in the case of
Cynthia Rothrock.
However, they are probably obscure to those who came after those
times or weren't frequent drive-in movie buffs in their more tender
years.
Randy
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22281
From: John Paul Vrolyk
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 10:45:11 -0500
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Filksinger wrote:
> Foxy Brown
> Coffy
> Cynthia Rothrock
I've never heard of any of them. But then, my knowledge of popular
culture is pretty sparse anyway.
--
John Paul Vrolyk
jp@vrolyk.org
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22282
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 01:37:08 GMT
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 10:45:11 -0500, John Paul Vrolyk <jp@vrolyk.org>
wrote:
>Filksinger wrote:
>> Foxy Brown
>> Coffy
>> Cynthia Rothrock
>
>I've never heard of any of them. But then, my knowledge of popular
>culture is pretty sparse anyway.
>
I don't know Coffy, but I've heard of the other two, even seen Cynthia
Rothrock in a few movies.
Wendy--I'm trying to remember who the "Invisible Girl" was...I
remember she was married to Reed Richards, but I can't remember her
first name...(just looked it up in my copy of "Secret Origins of
Marvel Comics"-- Sue.) Excelsior! <G>
Filk--Hope you fill us in on the rest of the conversation--sounds like
an interesting one.
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22283
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 01:37:08 GMT
Subject: Re: Don't forget the Hugos!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 00:00:38 -0500, "William J. Keaton"
<wjake@prodigy.net> wrote:
>Also, this year, the Dramatic Presentation Hugo has been split into Long
>Form and Short Form categories. So Buffy, Angel, Smallville, Twilight Zone,
>etc. will not be up against Lord of the Rings II.
>
>WJaKe
WJaKe--PLEASE vote for Buffy. Joss Whedon deserves to win -something-.
<G>
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22284
From: djinn
Date: 14 Mar 2003 01:56:47 GMT
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in
news:3e6fc3ce.0@news.sff.net:
> OK, I'm having an online discussion with someone as to how "obscure"
> some female "power figures" are, meaning women who are/were action
> heroes, like Xena, Wonder Woman, or The Bionic Woman. In that context,
> who would/wouldn't consider these characters to be "obscure"?
>
> Foxy Brown
> Coffy
> Cynthia Rothrock
>
> If you consider these obscure, let me know. If you don't even know who
> they are, all the better. If you think that I'm out of touch for
> considering them obscure, tell me that, too.
>
I've heard of Cynthia Rothrock, but not because of her movie roles. She's
been on the cover of 'Black Belt' more than once.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22285
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 23:20:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Don't forget the Hugos!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"JT" <JT@REM0VE.sff.net> wrote in
>
> WJaKe--PLEASE vote for Buffy. Joss Whedon deserves to win -something-.
Actually, I have to nominate a specific _episode_ of Buffy, and I'm not sure
which one(s) to put on the ballot. Or Angel, for that matter.
Last year it was "once More With Feeling" aka The Musical, which made the
final ballot.
Suggestions?
WJaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22286
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 00:33:47 -0500
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
FS: Never heard of the first two. Seen Cynthia karate chopping
bad guys in a few flicks years ago.
Ed J
On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:25:20 -0800, "Filksinger"
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:
>OK, I'm having an online discussion with someone as to how "obscure" some
>female "power figures" are, meaning women who are/were action heroes, like
>Xena, Wonder Woman, or The Bionic Woman. In that context, who would/wouldn't
>consider these characters to be "obscure"?
>
>Foxy Brown
>Coffy
>Cynthia Rothrock
>
>If you consider these obscure, let me know. If you don't even know who they
>are, all the better. If you think that I'm out of touch for considering them
>obscure, tell me that, too.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22287
From: Filksinger"
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 00:00:18 -0800
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Wendy of NJ wrote:
> I must be an UberFemGeek, then. I don't think they're obscure at all!
I think you may be confused.:)
> (now the chick in the Fantastic Four -- *she's* obscure!)
My suspicions are growing...:)
> Those 3 are the most "famous" of all the female superheroes - they
> each
> had a TV series of their own (eventually), and they ran for more than
> 1 season (I think Xena went 10 years?)
Yup. You think the three "obscure" people I was refering to were Wonder
Woman, the Bionic Woman, and Xena. They weren't the obscure ones. They were
the examples of what type of character I was talking about, chosen because I
assumed most people would know who they were. The obscure examples are Foxy
Brown, Coffy, and Cynthia Rothrock.
> What about Supergirl, Batgirl, Storm, Jane Grey, Rogue, Blossom,
> Bubbles
> and Buttercup???? (and for that matter Jeannie and Samantha?)
I recognize them all. I'm not certain if that is good or bad.:)
<snip>
> And yes, I watch Wayyy too much TV.
You aren't the only one.:)
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22288
From: Filksinger"
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 00:09:29 -0800
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
William J. Keaton wrote:
> "Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message
> news:3e6fc3ce.0@news.sff.net...
<snip>
>> Foxy Brown
>> Coffy
>> Cynthia Rothrock
>>
>
> The first one is the only one I've heard of. Can you explain who the
> other two might be?
>
> WJaKe
Foxy Brown and Coffy are the title characters of two "blaxploitation" movies
of the 70s, both played by Pam Grier. Cynthia Rothrock is the "Queen of
B-grade Kung-Fu Movies".
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22289
From: Filksinger"
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 00:21:45 -0800
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 10:45:11 -0500, John Paul Vrolyk <jp@vrolyk.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Filksinger wrote:
>>> Foxy Brown
>>> Coffy
>>> Cynthia Rothrock
>>
>> I've never heard of any of them. But then, my knowledge of popular
>> culture is pretty sparse anyway.
>>
> I don't know Coffy, but I've heard of the other two, even seen Cynthia
> Rothrock in a few movies.
>
> Wendy--I'm trying to remember who the "Invisible Girl" was...I
> remember she was married to Reed Richards, but I can't remember her
> first name...(just looked it up in my copy of "Secret Origins of
> Marvel Comics"-- Sue.) Excelsior! <G>
Susan Richards nee Storm. Sister to Johnny Storm, the Human Torch.
> Filk--Hope you fill us in on the rest of the conversation--sounds like
> an interesting one.
The person in question claimed that Wonder Woman, the Bionic Women, Xena,
Foxy Brown, Cynthia Rothrock, and Coffy were proof that there wasn't a
"virtual vaccuum" of "female power figures" as role models in current
society ("power figures", in this context, appear to be action heroes). I
pointed out that, out of six, three were obscure, and two dressed like Vegas
showgirls, which tended to make them more popular with men than women. I
also pointed out that for every example he could give, I could give dozens
of "female anti-power figures", dozens of male "power figures", and dozens
of movies where strong men assumed women were weak (and were generally
supported by the world in which they "lived").
Considering the context (a role-playing game list dedicated to Hero Games,
whose most popular product by far has been "Champions", a super-hero role
playing game), I was rather surprised that he wasn't using the four female
superheroes in "Bubblegum Crisis", or the heroes in "Slayers" (both anime
where the female characters are powerful superheroes), or more comic book
heroines, rather than, say, Coffy.
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22290
From: David M. Silver"
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 01:26:42 -0800
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Randy J. Jost" wrote:
> Filksinger wrote:
> > OK, I'm having an online discussion with someone as to how "obscure" some
> > female "power figures" are, meaning women who are/were action heroes, like
> > Xena, Wonder Woman, or The Bionic Woman. In that context, who would/wouldn't
> > consider these characters to be "obscure"?
> >
> > Foxy Brown
> > Coffy
> > Cynthia Rothrock
> >
> > If you consider these obscure, let me know. If you don't even know who they
> > are, all the better. If you think that I'm out of touch for considering them
> > obscure, tell me that, too.
> >
> > --
> > Filksinger
> > AKA David Nasset, Sr.
> > Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
> >
> >
>
> Filk,
>
> I think these two people, Pam Grier and Cynthia Rothrock are
> probably fairly well known to those who followed the Blaxploitation
> movies of the 70's (in the case of Pam Grier) and the early
> "kick-butt" women roles of the late 70's early 80's in the case of
> Cynthia Rothrock.
>
I remember the actress Pam Grier; but had no clue until now who she played in the
Blaxploitation movies. Wasn't she in one of the Conan the Ball-bearing movies?
>
> However, they are probably obscure to those who came after those
> times or weren't frequent drive-in movie buffs in their more tender
> years.
>
We didn't have drive-ins in the Big City anymore, during the "late 70's" or
"early 80's," Randy. They were all pretty dead by the end of the 60's. Property
was too valuable -- they turned them into Cadilliac or Rolls Royce dealerships.
Or, later, into huge office buildings. Had to drive out to East Lamekiss to find
a drive-in.
David
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22291
From: Wendy of NJ
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 09:23:06 -0500
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
D'oh!
(and I haven't heard of the others, but I remember Pam Greer. I didn't
watch too many Blacksploitation films in my childhood)
Filksinger wrote:
> Wendy of NJ wrote:
>
>>I must be an UberFemGeek, then. I don't think they're obscure at all!
>
>
> I think you may be confused.:)
>
>
>>(now the chick in the Fantastic Four -- *she's* obscure!)
>
>
> My suspicions are growing...:)
>
>
>>Those 3 are the most "famous" of all the female superheroes - they
>>each
>>had a TV series of their own (eventually), and they ran for more than
>>1 season (I think Xena went 10 years?)
>
>
> Yup. You think the three "obscure" people I was refering to were Wonder
> Woman, the Bionic Woman, and Xena. They weren't the obscure ones. They were
> the examples of what type of character I was talking about, chosen because I
> assumed most people would know who they were. The obscure examples are Foxy
> Brown, Coffy, and Cynthia Rothrock.
>
>
>>What about Supergirl, Batgirl, Storm, Jane Grey, Rogue, Blossom,
>>Bubbles
>>and Buttercup???? (and for that matter Jeannie and Samantha?)
>
>
> I recognize them all. I'm not certain if that is good or bad.:)
> <snip>
>
>>And yes, I watch Wayyy too much TV.
>
>
> You aren't the only one.:)
>
>
> --
> Filksinger
> AKA David Nasset, Sr.
> Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22292
From: Wendy of NJ
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 09:28:29 -0500
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Filksinger wrote:
> JT wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 10:45:11 -0500, John Paul Vrolyk <jp@vrolyk.org>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Filksinger wrote:
>>>
>>>>Foxy Brown
>>>>Coffy
>>>>Cynthia Rothrock
>>>
>>>I've never heard of any of them. But then, my knowledge of popular
>>>culture is pretty sparse anyway.
>>>
>>
>>I don't know Coffy, but I've heard of the other two, even seen Cynthia
>>Rothrock in a few movies.
>>
>>Wendy--I'm trying to remember who the "Invisible Girl" was...I
>>remember she was married to Reed Richards, but I can't remember her
>>first name...(just looked it up in my copy of "Secret Origins of
>>Marvel Comics"-- Sue.) Excelsior! <G>
>
>
> Susan Richards nee Storm. Sister to Johnny Storm, the Human Torch.
>
>
>>Filk--Hope you fill us in on the rest of the conversation--sounds like
>>an interesting one.
>
>
> The person in question claimed that Wonder Woman, the Bionic Women, Xena,
> Foxy Brown, Cynthia Rothrock, and Coffy were proof that there wasn't a
> "virtual vaccuum" of "female power figures" as role models in current
> society ("power figures", in this context, appear to be action heroes). I
> pointed out that, out of six, three were obscure, and two dressed like Vegas
> showgirls, which tended to make them more popular with men than women. I
> also pointed out that for every example he could give, I could give dozens
> of "female anti-power figures", dozens of male "power figures", and dozens
> of movies where strong men assumed women were weak (and were generally
> supported by the world in which they "lived").
>
> Considering the context (a role-playing game list dedicated to Hero Games,
> whose most popular product by far has been "Champions", a super-hero role
> playing game), I was rather surprised that he wasn't using the four female
> superheroes in "Bubblegum Crisis", or the heroes in "Slayers" (both anime
> where the female characters are powerful superheroes), or more comic book
> heroines, rather than, say, Coffy.
>
Maybe it's not a vaccuum, but the air is indeed thin. There are more now
than there used to be - the women's movement has had an impact over the
past century! (and IMHO, heroes like Podkayne, Wyoming Knott and Friday
have done at least as much to influence girls and young women as the tv
icons - see... I made an on-topic comment, LOL - at least they
influenced ME.)
I never played Champions, but I had friends who did. It sounded funny,
but that's probably becuase my friend's "superpower" was to do things
with potatoes. His character had to carry a sack of potatoes everywhere
he went, or he'd be desperately searching for spuds in a crisis. Too
funny....
-Wendy
>
> --
> Filksinger
> AKA David Nasset, Sr.
> Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22293
From: Wendy of NJ
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 09:31:02 -0500
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
That was Grace Jones (and a poster of her as Zula graced the walls of my
weight room for 5 years, as inspiration. I LOVED her! I heard that she
put a couple of stuntmen in the hospital, because she was really hitting
them with that stick of hers.)
David M. Silver wrote:
>
> "Randy J. Jost" wrote:
>
>
>>Filksinger wrote:
>>
>>>OK, I'm having an online discussion with someone as to how "obscure" some
>>>female "power figures" are, meaning women who are/were action heroes, like
>>>Xena, Wonder Woman, or The Bionic Woman. In that context, who would/wouldn't
>>>consider these characters to be "obscure"?
>>>
>>>Foxy Brown
>>>Coffy
>>>Cynthia Rothrock
>>>
>>>If you consider these obscure, let me know. If you don't even know who they
>>>are, all the better. If you think that I'm out of touch for considering them
>>>obscure, tell me that, too.
>>>
>>>--
>>>Filksinger
>>>AKA David Nasset, Sr.
>>>Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Filk,
>>
>>I think these two people, Pam Grier and Cynthia Rothrock are
>>probably fairly well known to those who followed the Blaxploitation
>>movies of the 70's (in the case of Pam Grier) and the early
>>"kick-butt" women roles of the late 70's early 80's in the case of
>>Cynthia Rothrock.
>>
>
>
> I remember the actress Pam Grier; but had no clue until now who she played in the
> Blaxploitation movies. Wasn't she in one of the Conan the Ball-bearing movies?
>
>
>>However, they are probably obscure to those who came after those
>>times or weren't frequent drive-in movie buffs in their more tender
>>years.
>>
>
>
> We didn't have drive-ins in the Big City anymore, during the "late 70's" or
> "early 80's," Randy. They were all pretty dead by the end of the 60's. Property
> was too valuable -- they turned them into Cadilliac or Rolls Royce dealerships.
> Or, later, into huge office buildings. Had to drive out to East Lamekiss to find
> a drive-in.
>
> David
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22294
From: noone"
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 13:08:25 -0500
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Wendy of NJ" <voxwoman@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3E71E70D.2050405@hotmail.com...
> I never played Champions, but I had friends who did. It sounded funny,
> but that's probably becuase my friend's "superpower" was to do things
> with potatoes. His character had to carry a sack of potatoes everywhere
> he went, or he'd be desperately searching for spuds in a crisis. Too
> funny....
>
> -Wendy
------------------------------------
he had to have seen the old bugs bunny cartoon where bugs gets hands on a
bunch of "super carrots" which had a habit of "running out of gas" at
critical moments, such as in mid air while he was flying or just as he was
about to get serious with the villian of the piece.
"gunner"
(who has a nearly life long love for "the wabbit")
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22295
From: Filksinger"
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 12:59:26 -0800
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Wendy of NJ wrote:
<snip>
>
> Maybe it's not a vaccuum, but the air is indeed thin. There are more
> now
> than there used to be - the women's movement has had an impact over
> the
> past century! (and IMHO, heroes like Podkayne, Wyoming Knott and
> Friday
> have done at least as much to influence girls and young women as the
> tv
> icons - see... I made an on-topic comment, LOL - at least they
> influenced ME.)
Yes, it has, a lot. I wasn't disagreeing on this point, I was just telling
him that his argument sucked.:)
> I never played Champions, but I had friends who did. It sounded funny,
> but that's probably becuase my friend's "superpower" was to do things
> with potatoes. His character had to carry a sack of potatoes
> everywhere
> he went, or he'd be desperately searching for spuds in a crisis. Too
> funny....
Sounds like a humorous character. I've been in games in a super genre that
varied from wildly humorous to deadly serious. Much like the supers genre
itself. In the humorous category, I recall a character of mine known as "The
Grocer", who wore a leather (super armored) apron, a visor, a pencil behind
the ear, and carried a magic grocery bag out of which he could pull
_anything_. When last seen, he was attempting to pull an octopus out of the
bag to capture a villain by throwing it at him, failed his success roll, and
tentacles pulled him into the bag.
If anyone thinks that having costumed people with super powers battle evil
can't be serious, have them check out the "Wild Cards" series. If they are
an adult, or at least an older teen, that is. I wouldn't recommend it for
anyone less than a mature 15, and I'll let my mature 12-year-old read almost
anything.
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22296
From: Wendy of NJ
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 17:17:35 -0500
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Filksinger wrote:
> Wendy of NJ wrote:
> <snip>
>
> I wasn't disagreeing on this point, I was just telling
> him that his argument sucked.:)
<snicker>
<snip>
I've been in games in a super genre that
> varied from wildly humorous to deadly serious. Much like the supers genre
> itself. In the humorous category, I recall a character of mine known as "The
> Grocer", who wore a leather (super armored) apron, a visor, a pencil behind
> the ear, and carried a magic grocery bag out of which he could pull
> _anything_. When last seen, he was attempting to pull an octopus out of the
> bag to capture a villain by throwing it at him, failed his success roll, and
> tentacles pulled him into the bag.
ROFL!
>
> If anyone thinks that having costumed people with super powers battle evil
> can't be serious, have them check out the "Wild Cards" series. If they are
> an adult, or at least an older teen, that is. I wouldn't recommend it for
> anyone less than a mature 15, and I'll let my mature 12-year-old read almost
> anything.
I can't remember how old I was when I discovered SF and F (and RAH) for
that matter, but I was probably 11 or 12 - I was reading his juvies and
Asimov's Juvies, and then graduated to the adult books. My parents never
censored my reading -- and I do remember a not-so-great SF book I read
in 7th grade that was VERY adult, but the teacher didn't care as long as
I had a permission note from Mom. The plot points were all these wealthy
old people went to a spa with their trophy boy/girlfriends for some
anti-aging treatments that consisted of some stuff from fetal pineal
glands. ONe of the trophy mates found the lab and destroyed all the
fetuses, and then the head of the spa (the mad scientist) started taking
the pineal gland stuff from the young consorts (who wound up aging
prematurely). There was a lot of sex and violence in that book, IIRC,
and a lot of things I didn't really "get" because I didn't have the life
experience.
And it took me several readings at various ages to get some of the
Silverberg from the 70's, too. (especially the one about the urban monads).
>
> --
> Filksinger
> AKA David Nasset, Sr.
> Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22297
From: Kristina Forsyth"
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 21:18:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Don't forget the Hugos!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
From this year? Beneath You, for Spike's scene in the church.
I guess I won't get to vote - the person who sold me my membership didn't
specify keeping voting rights, and sent in the change of name and address,
but I haven't received anything from Con Jose. :(
T
"William J. Keaton" <wjake@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:3e7157ef.0@news.sff.net...
>
> "JT" <JT@REM0VE.sff.net> wrote in
> >
> > WJaKe--PLEASE vote for Buffy. Joss Whedon deserves to win -something-.
>
>
> Actually, I have to nominate a specific _episode_ of Buffy, and I'm not
sure
> which one(s) to put on the ballot. Or Angel, for that matter.
>
> Last year it was "once More With Feeling" aka The Musical, which made the
> final ballot.
>
> Suggestions?
>
> WJaKe
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22298
From: Jane Davitt
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 21:22:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Don't forget the Hugos!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Kristina Forsyth wrote:
> From this year? Beneath You, for Spike's scene in the church.
>
God, that was sublime.
Have you read the original version by Petrie? I'm so glad Joss waded in
and altered it to what we saw on screen.
I can't watch that without crying.The final image was burned into my
memory...so moving.
Jane
--
Read my Buffy the Vampire Slayer fiction at
http://members.rogers.com/jdavitt01/index.html
http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=231516
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22299
From: Kristina Forsyth"
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 21:27:28 -0500
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
We did in our big city - well, in the suburbs around it. (Boston.)
T
"David M. Silver" <ag.plusone@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3E71A052.8DF3D2CF@verizon.net...
>
>
> "Randy J. Jost" wrote:
>
> > Filksinger wrote:
> > > OK, I'm having an online discussion with someone as to how "obscure"
some
> > > female "power figures" are, meaning women who are/were action heroes,
like
> > > Xena, Wonder Woman, or The Bionic Woman. In that context, who
would/wouldn't
> > > consider these characters to be "obscure"?
> > >
> > > Foxy Brown
> > > Coffy
> > > Cynthia Rothrock
> > >
> > > If you consider these obscure, let me know. If you don't even know who
they
> > > are, all the better. If you think that I'm out of touch for
considering them
> > > obscure, tell me that, too.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Filksinger
> > > AKA David Nasset, Sr.
> > > Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Filk,
> >
> > I think these two people, Pam Grier and Cynthia Rothrock are
> > probably fairly well known to those who followed the Blaxploitation
> > movies of the 70's (in the case of Pam Grier) and the early
> > "kick-butt" women roles of the late 70's early 80's in the case of
> > Cynthia Rothrock.
> >
>
> I remember the actress Pam Grier; but had no clue until now who she played
in the
> Blaxploitation movies. Wasn't she in one of the Conan the Ball-bearing
movies?
>
> >
> > However, they are probably obscure to those who came after those
> > times or weren't frequent drive-in movie buffs in their more tender
> > years.
> >
>
> We didn't have drive-ins in the Big City anymore, during the "late 70's"
or
> "early 80's," Randy. They were all pretty dead by the end of the 60's.
Property
> was too valuable -- they turned them into Cadilliac or Rolls Royce
dealerships.
> Or, later, into huge office buildings. Had to drive out to East Lamekiss
to find
> a drive-in.
>
> David
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22300
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 18:38:25 GMT
Subject: Re: Don't forget the Hugos!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 23:20:31 -0500, "William J. Keaton"
<wjake@prodigy.net> wrote:
>Suggestions?
>
I'm not quite the Spike fan that Jane is, so I'll have to think about
it. Still might be that episode, though. <G> I'll have to troll one
of the Buffy sites to refresh my memory on this year's episode list.
We go so long between blocks of new episodes.... :(
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22301
From: Jane Davitt
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 17:12:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Don't forget the Hugos!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 23:20:31 -0500, "William J. Keaton"
> <wjake@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>>Suggestions?
>>
>
> I'm not quite the Spike fan that Jane is, so I'll have to think about
> it. Still might be that episode, though. <G> I'll have to troll one
> of the Buffy sites to refresh my memory on this year's episode list.
> We go so long between blocks of new episodes.... :(
>
> JT
>
>
If I looked at the season as a whole, one episode that did impress me
was 'Conversations With Dead People' From the moment the date and time
flashed up and my husband and I both automatically glanced at our clock
and saw it matched ( well, a minute off), we were hooked. It was so
immediate...really gripping hour of TV.
Jane
--
Read my Buffy the Vampire Slayer fiction at
http://members.rogers.com/jdavitt01/index.html
http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=231516
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22302
From: David M. Silver"
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 19:23:53 -0800
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Kristina Forsyth wrote:
> We did in our big city - well, in the suburbs around it. (Boston.)
>
> T
Our suburbs are quite far out. There was one at Olympic Blvd and Bundy that
they tore down and made into a Cadilliac dealership before my daughter turned
three. That would have been about 1972. And another on Centinela, east of
Sepulveda, that went into an industrial building, a couple years later. I think
she was about five or six then. Hardly worth putting her in doctor dentons in
the back of the station wagon with her pillows and blankets. That was the last
one I recall on the west side of Los Angeles.
I'll look for your drive-ins as I fly into Logan next Thursday, if I can see
anything through the clouds. ;-) A friend and I will be driving down to I-Con
to recruit for the Heinlein Society on Long Island at SU Stony Brook Friday. If
it's still snowing, he claims he's coming back Monday on the big bird with me
to SoCal. ;-D
David
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22303
From: Kristina Forsyth"
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 01:07:52 -0500
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
lol - they were there in the late 70s, and maybe the early 80s, but you'll
have to look further west now. There might still be a drive-in out by
Worcester...
T
"David M. Silver" <ag.plusone@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3E73EE4A.B642313C@verizon.net...
>
>
> Kristina Forsyth wrote:
>
> > We did in our big city - well, in the suburbs around it. (Boston.)
> >
> > T
>
> Our suburbs are quite far out. There was one at Olympic Blvd and Bundy
that
> they tore down and made into a Cadilliac dealership before my daughter
turned
> three. That would have been about 1972. And another on Centinela, east of
> Sepulveda, that went into an industrial building, a couple years later. I
think
> she was about five or six then. Hardly worth putting her in doctor dentons
in
> the back of the station wagon with her pillows and blankets. That was the
last
> one I recall on the west side of Los Angeles.
>
> I'll look for your drive-ins as I fly into Logan next Thursday, if I can
see
> anything through the clouds. ;-) A friend and I will be driving down to
I-Con
> to recruit for the Heinlein Society on Long Island at SU Stony Brook
Friday. If
> it's still snowing, he claims he's coming back Monday on the big bird with
me
> to SoCal. ;-D
>
> David
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22304
From: SpaceCadet
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 10:15:54 -0600
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Filk,
I've heard of Xena, Wonder Woman and TBW. But I haven't
heard of Foxy Brown, Coffy or Cynthia Rothrock.
Carol (who is way too sleepy due to just getting back from
Hawaii.)
==========
Filksinger wrote:
> OK, I'm having an online discussion with someone as to how "obscure" some
> female "power figures" are, meaning women who are/were action heroes, like
> Xena, Wonder Woman, or The Bionic Woman. In that context, who would/wouldn't
> consider these characters to be "obscure"?
>
> Foxy Brown
> Coffy
> Cynthia Rothrock
>
> If you consider these obscure, let me know. If you don't even know who they
> are, all the better. If you think that I'm out of touch for considering them
> obscure, tell me that, too.
>
> --
> Filksinger
> AKA David Nasset, Sr.
> Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22305
From: David Wright"
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 18:54:09 -0500
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Kristina Forsyth <kgf@sff.net> wrote in message
news:3e7413d8.0@news.sff.net...
> lol - they were there in the late 70s, and maybe the early 80s, but you'll
> have to look further west now. There might still be a drive-in out by
> Worcester...
>
There is a small town in extreme north central Georgia called Blue Ridge
which I visit quite often as it is the location of one of our health
departments which we service. The only theater anywhere near there is an
active Drive-In. Surprised me when I first saw it as the last of the
Drive-Ins in my area was turned into a home repair retail store in the early
80's.
--
David Wright
http://www.alltel.net/~dwrighsr/index.html
Anytime is a good time to join us in The Heinlein Society
http://heinleinsociety.org/membership.html
http://heinleinsociety.org/join.html
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22306
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 00:26:15 GMT
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Sun, 16 Mar 2003 18:54:09 -0500, "David Wright"
<dwrighsr@alltel.net> wrote:
>There is a small town in extreme north central Georgia
Or is it extreme south northern Georgia? <G> 'course they probably
would take exception to that. ;)
I've never been to a drive-in movie. They were almost all gone on
Long Island when I was growing up, and by the time I had access to a
car to go myself, they were extinct.
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22307
From: Filksinger"
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 17:41:05 -0800
Subject: Quotation
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I've misplaced my "Notebooks", and was trying to find the exact words to one
of the quotes. Something about explaining stupidity with malice.
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22308
From: David Wright"
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 21:48:34 -0500
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT <JT@REM0VE.sff.net> wrote in message
news:3e76669c.171934234@news.sff.net...
> On Sun, 16 Mar 2003 18:54:09 -0500, "David Wright"
> <dwrighsr@alltel.net> wrote:
>
> >There is a small town in extreme north central Georgia
>
> Or is it extreme south northern Georgia? <G> 'course they probably
> would take exception to that. ;)
>
> I've never been to a drive-in movie. They were almost all gone on
> Long Island when I was growing up, and by the time I had access to a
> car to go myself, they were extinct.
>
> JT
JT <JT@REM0VE.sff.net> wrote in message
news:3e76669c.171934234@news.sff.net...
> On Sun, 16 Mar 2003 18:54:09 -0500, "David Wright"
> <dwrighsr@alltel.net> wrote:
>
> >There is a small town in extreme north central Georgia
>
> Or is it extreme south northern Georgia? <G> 'course they probably
> would take exception to that. ;)
>
> I've never been to a drive-in movie. They were almost all gone on
> Long Island when I was growing up, and by the time I had access to a
> car to go myself, they were extinct.
>
> JT
Well, I haven't been to one myself in a coon's age, but if you care to come
a-visitin sometime in late spring or summer time, we kin scoot up to Blue
Ridge
and take one in.
--
David Wright
http://www.alltel.net/~dwrighsr/index.html
http://heinleinsociety.org
Anytime is a good time to join us in The Heinlein Society
http://heinleinsociety.org/membership.html
http://heinleinsociety.org/join.html
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22309
From: Randy J. Jost"
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 20:13:52 -0700
Subject: Re: Quotation
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Filksinger wrote:
> I've misplaced my "Notebooks", and was trying to find the exact words to one
> of the quotes. Something about explaining stupidity with malice.
>
> --
> Filksinger
> AKA David Nasset, Sr.
> Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
>
>
David,
The only quotes on stupidity that I could find in "Notebooks" are:
Stupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education, or by
legislation. Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being
stupid. But stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the
sentence is death, there is no appeal, and execution is carried out
automatically and without pity.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.
Randy
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22310
From: David M. Silver"
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 18:45:38 -0800
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Mar 2003 18:54:09 -0500, "David Wright"
> <dwrighsr@alltel.net> wrote:
>
> >There is a small town in extreme north central Georgia
>
> Or is it extreme south northern Georgia? <G> 'course they probably
> would take exception to that. ;)
>
> I've never been to a drive-in movie. They were almost all gone on
> Long Island when I was growing up, and by the time I had access to a
> car to go myself, they were extinct.
You didn't miss a real lot, JT. Both the front and back seats of a '50
Chevy were overrated, even when you're sixteen and going steady; and on
chilly nights the widows fogged up. ;-) OTOH, when I was about eight I
got to see _Destination Moon_ from the back seat of my dad's old '47
Chevy. That was neat! And mom packed fried chicken, 'n potato salad, 'n
dad brought his selzter bottles and cherry syrup for us, and the big
thermos of coffee he used for work for him and mom.
David
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22311
From: Jane Davitt
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 07:44:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Quotation
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Filksinger wrote:
> I've misplaced my "Notebooks", and was trying to find the exact words to one
> of the quotes. Something about explaining stupidity with malice.
>
> --
> Filksinger
> AKA David Nasset, Sr.
> Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
>
>
Do you mean
"Never attribute to malice what can be better/adequately explained by
stupidity."?
I looked that up and found several versions (I've combined them in the
above) and several credited authors. No time to take it further (school
bus time) but maybe you can track it from here?
Jane
--
Read my Buffy the Vampire Slayer fiction at
http://members.rogers.com/jdavitt01/index.html
http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=231516
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22312
From: Filksinger"
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 21:16:03 -0800
Subject: Re: Quotation
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Jane Davitt wrote:
> > Do you mean
>
> "Never attribute to malice what can be better/adequately explained by
> stupidity."?
Yes, the version using the word "adequately".
> I looked that up and found several versions (I've combined them in the
> above) and several credited authors. No time to take it further
> (school
> bus time) but maybe you can track it from here?
>
> Jane
Thanks. That's exactly what I needed. I don't remember what book it was, but
it was attributed to LL.
It wasn't "Notebooks". I suspect "Expanded Universe".
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22313
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 02:20:21 -0500
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I may be of the last generation that could truly appreciate the drive-in
movie. I reached driving age down in Phoenix, where we had everything from
the classic big screen to 16 screen multiplex drive-ins. With the mild
weather, drive-ins were a year-round alternative.
I recall nights hanging out of the tailgate of the family station wagon.
Many of my high school dates centered around a car full of people, or
sometimes just the two of us. From the tinny speakers hanging off the window
to the days of the radio broadcasts through the car stereo, I saw many a
movie through the slightly foggy windshield of various vehicles. It was fun,
it was innocent, it was occasionally R-rated. And I'm not talking about the
movie!
If any of you ever have the chance to see Jimmy Buffett's music video for a
song called "Take Another Road" you'll get to see a stirring tribute to the
drive-in theatre. It's on his video collection "Tales from Margaritavision".
WJaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22314
Article no longer available
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22315
From: webnews@sff.net
Date: 19 Mar 2003 17:58:37 GMT
Subject: SpamGuard
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
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------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22316
From: debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek Rule)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 20:40:23 GMT
Subject: Re: Don't forget the Hugos!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
>WJaKe--PLEASE vote for Buffy. Joss Whedon deserves to win -something-.
No argument on that--Buffy's writing and directing are always
extraordinary. But... the last episode of Smallville with Christopher
Reed in it was right on target, they're almost at the level of
first-season X-Files (I'm hooked and I've never read a Superman comic
in my life, nor seen the movies).
Deb (D.A. Houdek)
http://www.dahoudek.com
http://www.robertaheinlein.com
http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22317
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 00:37:34 GMT
Subject: Re: Don't forget the Hugos!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 23:20:31 -0500, "William J. Keaton"
<wjake@prodigy.net> wrote:
>Actually, I have to nominate a specific _episode_ of Buffy, and I'm not sure
>which one(s) to put on the ballot. Or Angel, for that matter.
>
"Conversations with Dead People" is probably the one I'd lean to,
although reviewing this season I think "Potential" is probably my
second choice for the Dawn-Xander scene at the end.
As far as Angel..."Awakening", when Angel imagines all that needs to
happen to make him again experience that moment of true happiness.
I agree with Deb that the Christopher Reeve episode of Smallville
("Rosetta") has been the best one. It didn't seem like the stunt
casting it was and I like the potential for his future use. I don't
want it on the ballot, though, 'cause I want Buffy to win. :)
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22318
From: Eli Hestermann
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 14:27:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Don't forget the Hugos!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 23:20:31 -0500, "William J. Keaton"
> <wjake@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> >Actually, I have to nominate a specific _episode_ of Buffy, and I'm not sure
> >which one(s) to put on the ballot. Or Angel, for that matter.
> >
> "Conversations with Dead People" is probably the one I'd lean to,
me too.
> As far as Angel..."Awakening", when Angel imagines all that needs to
> happen to make him again experience that moment of true happiness.
Like I said on the buffy group at the time, I thought the serial numbers from
Ambrose Bierce's "An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge" weren't quite filed off of
that plot.
--
Eli V. Hestermann
Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu
"Vita brevis est, ars longa." -Seneca
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22319
From: David Wright"
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 14:39:17 -0500
Subject: Heinlein Readers Group Meeting tonight
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
There will be a meeting of the Heinlein Readers Group this evening (3-20) at
8:00 P.M. EST using AIM software.
If you don't have AIM, you can download it from
http://www.aol.com/aim/homenew.adp
Once installed, e-mail me your 'buddy name' and I'll keep a look out for you
and invite you into the room. My 'buddy name' is DavidWrightSr. If you add
that to your list, then you can send me an I(nstant) M(essage).
--
David Wright
E-Mail: dwrighsr@alltel.net
http://www.alltel.net/~dwrighsr/index.html
http://heinleinsociety.org
Help us prepare for the upcoming Centennial of the birthday of Robert A.
Heinlein
http://heinlein100.org
Anytime is a good time to join us in The Heinlein Society
http://heinleinsociety.org/membership.html
http://heinleinsociety.org/join.html
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22320
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 23:31:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Don't forget the Hugos!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 14:27:35 -0500, Eli Hestermann
<Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu> wrote:
>> As far as Angel..."Awakening", when Angel imagines all that needs to
>> happen to make him again experience that moment of true happiness.
>
>Like I said on the buffy group at the time, I thought the serial numbers from
>Ambrose Bierce's "An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge" weren't quite filed off of
>that plot.
>
Hey, if you're gonna steal, steal something good. ;)
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22321
From: Jane Davitt
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 07:30:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Quotation
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
>
In what is known in my house as a 'Quiller Couch' this came up on
another ng and someone mentioned this;
"Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by
incompetence."
-- Napoleon Bonaparte
Weird, huh? A lot of LL's quotes are 'borrowed'. I kept meaning to track
some of them down but it's a huge project. It fits with him that he
would tweak something and then let Ira write it down solemnly as Senior
style wisdom.
Jane
--
Read my Buffy the Vampire Slayer fiction at
http://members.rogers.com/jdavitt01/index.html
http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=231516
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22322
From: Filksinger"
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 10:21:37 -0800
Subject: Re: Quotation
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Jane Davitt wrote:
> In what is known in my house as a 'Quiller Couch' this came up on
> another ng and someone mentioned this;
>
>
> "Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by
> incompetence."
> -- Napoleon Bonaparte
>
> Weird, huh? A lot of LL's quotes are 'borrowed'. I kept meaning to
> track some of them down but it's a huge project. It fits with him
> that he would tweak something and then let Ira write it down solemnly
> as Senior style wisdom.
>
> Jane
Yes, it fits LL to a T. And, of course, they knew what they were getting.
They didn't ask him for anything original. Indeed, their method of
collecting information made it impossible to get entirely original
quotations.
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22323
From: David M. Silver"
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 08:23:41 -0800
Subject: Heinlein Society -- I-Con, SUNY, Stony Brook, Mar 28-30
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
A few of us will be attending "I-Con" at the State University of New
York, Stony Brook Campus, this weekend. If we can find a place, we'll
distribute Heinlein Society literature and try a little recruiting.
Otherwise, we'll be free to lay a little groundwork for future con
attendance by the Society in the Northeast. Alan Milner, Yoji Kondo, and
Art Dula, from our board, will also be attending.
This is an unusual science-fiction, etc., convention since it is not
held at a hotel or convention center [there are no convention centers
nearby], rather they hold it on the university campus, renting school
facilities. Guests or visitors either commute in or stay at nearby
local, somewhat scattered hotels and motels. Stony Brook is about the
middle of the island, across the sound from Bridgeport, Conneticut.
I'll be staying, Friday and Saturday night, March 28 and 29, at the
Holiday Inn Express STONY BROOK, NY
3131 Nesconset Hwy.
Centereach, NY11720
1-631-471-8000
It's a couple miles from the campus. Let us know if you plan to attend
the con or can drop by for a few hours.
Ask for the room under my name, and if we get together I'll buy you a
drink, unless this Southern California boy is frozen solid, in which
case you get to buy me a drink to defrost me. We (except Dr. Kondo who
will be at a participants' function) currently have no plans for dinner
Saturday evening. We can talk about the Heinlein Society, or any other
topic under the sun. Even if it's [shudder] snowing . . . brrrrr . . .
[how do I talk myself into these things?].
--
David M. Silver www.heinleinsociety.org
"The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!"
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA '29, Lt.(jg), USN, R'td, 1907-88
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22324
From: Bill Dauphin
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 02:17:04 -0500
Subject: Re: Heinlein Society -- I-Con, SUNY, Stony Brook, Mar 28-30
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On 3/24/03 11:23 AM, in article 3E7F310D.8D91BE4C@verizon.net, "David M.
Silver" <ag.plusone@verizon.net> wrote:
> A few of us will be attending "I-Con" at the State University of New
> York, Stony Brook Campus, this weekend.
I thought about attending but won't be able to make it. John Carmack is
supposed to be there; if any of you who do attend get a chance to talk to
him, please tell him Bill Dauphin from the Space Policy Digest BBS says
"Hi." It's not like we're friends or anything, but he should recognize my
name from the 'net.
For those of you who don't recognize John's name, he's the guy behind
_Quake_... And he's now plowing some of the big pile of dough he's made in
gaming into rocketry. He's the founder of the Armadillo Aerospace X Prize
team (http://www.armadilloaerospace.com/). Very cool stuff he's doing.
-JovBill
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22325
From: pixelmeow
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 21:10:22 -0500
Subject: Announce: Book Exchange Update
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Announcing the Multimedia List on the RAH Book Exchange. Please
reload the page (whichever one you start on) next time you go to the
Book Exchange, and you'll see a link to this new page. Request and
donate processes are the same.
Thanks, all!
--
~teresa~
^..^ "Never try to outstubborn a cat." Robert A. Heinlein ^..^
http://pixelmeow.com/ http://www.heinleinsociety.org/
http://pixelmeow.com/Book_Exchange/index.html
Beware the Spam Motel; use webmaster at my website!
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22326
From: David M. Silver"
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 18:37:28 -0800
Subject: Re: Heinlein Society -- I-Con, SUNY, Stony Brook, Mar 28-30
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Bill Dauphin wrote:
> On 3/24/03 11:23 AM, in article 3E7F310D.8D91BE4C@verizon.net, "David M.
> Silver" <ag.plusone@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > A few of us will be attending "I-Con" at the State University of New
> > York, Stony Brook Campus, this weekend.
>
> I thought about attending but won't be able to make it. John Carmack is
> supposed to be there; if any of you who do attend get a chance to talk to
> him, please tell him Bill Dauphin from the Space Policy Digest BBS says
> "Hi." It's not like we're friends or anything, but he should recognize my
> name from the 'net.
>
Will do, Bill. And if it's warm and it really turns out you've 'nuthin' to
do' . . . .
My best to your family, especially the young lady. ;-)
>
> For those of you who don't recognize John's name, he's the guy behind
> _Quake_... And he's now plowing some of the big pile of dough he's made in
> gaming into rocketry. He's the founder of the Armadillo Aerospace X Prize
> team (http://www.armadilloaerospace.com/). Very cool stuff he's doing.
>
> -JovBill
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22327
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 21:43:34 -0500
Subject: Iraq update
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
All:
I got this from Doc today. Worth reading.
http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/71835.htm
(For those of you new the Forum, 'Doc' or "Doc-ObiWan" is
a.k.a. Lt. Colonel Charles F. Coffin, retired, US Army Special
Forces.)
Ed J
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22328
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 12:07:33 GMT
Subject: Re: Iraq update
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Wed, 26 Mar 2003 21:43:34 -0500, Ed Johnson
<eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote:
>All:
>I got this from Doc today. Worth reading.
>
Yeah, but the first thing I thought of was "The -Post-"? Cheap ink
came off my hands when I touched my monitor. ;)
Seriously, though, I can't dispute what the columnist said, but then
again I have no military training or background.
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22329
From: William Jennings"
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 15:40:32 -0600
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
> > > > Xena, Wonder Woman, or The Bionic Woman. In that context, who
> would/wouldn't
> > > > consider these characters to be "obscure"?
Not to date myself, but the wetdream of my adolescence
was Emma Peel. Those tight leather outfits and the ability
to kick your lips as easily as kiss them. Obscure enough?
==========
Will in Central Texas
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22330
From: William Jennings"
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 15:47:19 -0600
Subject: Re: Iraq update
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"> (For those of you new the Forum, 'Doc' or "Doc-ObiWan" is
> a.k.a. Lt. Colonel Charles F. Coffin, retired, US Army Special
> Forces.)
>
>
> Ed J
>
For a fascinating insight into Special Forces, try CODENAME:COPPERHEAD, by
Joe Garner, a Green Beret NCO from the late 50's to the mid-70's.
==========
Will in Central Texas
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22331
From: James R. Cunningham"
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 20:53:51 -0800
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
How could Diana Rigg be considered obscure?
All the best,
Jim
William Jennings wrote:
>
>Emma Peel. Those tight leather outfits and the ability
> to kick your lips as easily as kiss them. Obscure enough?
>
> ==========
> Will in Central Texas
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22332
From: James R. Cunningham"
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 20:59:12 -0800
Subject: Ginny's dear friend Laura Heywood
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Laura died tonight from a massive heart attack suffered yesterday. She
went by to check on Ginny almost every day for the last couple of years,
and there is no doubt in my mind that she was responsible for
significantly extending Ginny's life. She is survived by her husband
Bill and her son John, and my heart goes out to them. She will be
missed. Snowy has become John's cat over the last few months, and he
will continue to have a good home.
JimC
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22333
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 22:53:23 -0500
Subject: Re: Ginny's dear friend Laura Heywood
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Jim: My condolences to her family.
Ed J
On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 20:59:12 -0800, "James R. Cunningham"
<jrccea@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>Laura died tonight from a massive heart attack suffered yesterday. She
>went by to check on Ginny almost every day for the last couple of years,
>and there is no doubt in my mind that she was responsible for
>significantly extending Ginny's life. She is survived by her husband
>Bill and her son John, and my heart goes out to them. She will be
>missed. Snowy has become John's cat over the last few months, and he
>will continue to have a good home.
>JimC
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22334
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 22:54:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Iraq update
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT: Doc cut and pasted the text into his E-Mail so I read it before
I went to the site. ? Does the NY Post have as bad of a rep as does
the Washington Post?
Ed J
On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 12:07:33 GMT, JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT) wrote:
>On Wed, 26 Mar 2003 21:43:34 -0500, Ed Johnson
><eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote:
>
>>All:
>>I got this from Doc today. Worth reading.
>>
>Yeah, but the first thing I thought of was "The -Post-"? Cheap ink
>came off my hands when I touched my monitor. ;)
>
>Seriously, though, I can't dispute what the columnist said, but then
>again I have no military training or background.
>
>JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22335
From: Jane Davitt
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 08:19:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Ginny's dear friend Laura Heywood
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
James R. Cunningham wrote:
> Laura died tonight from a massive heart attack suffered yesterday. She
> went by to check on Ginny almost every day for the last couple of years,
> and there is no doubt in my mind that she was responsible for
> significantly extending Ginny's life. She is survived by her husband
> Bill and her son John, and my heart goes out to them. She will be
> missed. Snowy has become John's cat over the last few months, and he
> will continue to have a good home.
> JimC
Oh, that is so sad! She seemed like a lovely lady who was a real friend
to Ginny. My sympathy to her family.
Jane
--
Read my Buffy the Vampire Slayer fiction at
http://members.rogers.com/jdavitt01/index.html
http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=231516
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22336
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 16:23:08 GMT
Subject: Re: Iraq update
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 22:54:49 -0500, Ed Johnson
<eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote:
>JT: Doc cut and pasted the text into his E-Mail so I read it before
>I went to the site. ? Does the NY Post have as bad of a rep as does
>the Washington Post?
>
Well, in my opinion, although it's a "liberal" newspaper in editorial
tone, the Washington Post is a Serious Newspaper. The NY Post takes
pride in being a 'tabloid', and playing more to the sensationalist in
each of us. I'm not saying their reporters don't fact-check or write
objective news articles, but their headlines are almost always a
little 'cruder' and the opinion pieces definitely have a different
tone to them.
I grew up reading the NY Daily News and Newsday, both tabloid-printed
papers, but they never seemed quite as "bad" as the Post.
Just my $.37.
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22337
From: Charles Graft
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 15:03:34 -0500
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
All--
All this discussion and no one came up with Monica Vitti as Modesty
Blaise?
--
<<Big Charlie>>
"Democracy is a form of worship. It is the worship of jackals by
jackasses." -- H. L. Menken
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22338
From: Jane Davitt
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 15:50:43 -0500
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Charles Graft wrote:
> All--
> All this discussion and no one came up with Monica Vitti as Modesty
> Blaise?
>
> --
> <<Big Charlie>>
>
> "Democracy is a form of worship. It is the worship of jackals by
> jackasses." -- H. L. Menken
>
>
I love the books but I've never seen the film; heard it was more of a
spoof like the James Coburn film; In Like Flynn was it? I forget.
Jane
--
Read my Buffy the Vampire Slayer fiction at
http://members.rogers.com/jdavitt01/index.html
http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=231516
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22339
Article no longer available
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22340
From: webnews@sff.net
Date: 31 Mar 2003 03:03:17 GMT
Subject: SpamGuard
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
One or more articles in this newsgroup have been cancelled by the sysops
for being spammed across multiple newsgroups, being commercial adverts,
or for violating SFF Net's Policies and Procedures.
To avoid seeing this notice in the future, set your newsreader to filter
out articles with SpamGuard in the subject.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22341
From: noone"
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 00:13:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Iraq update
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
taken all together a very good column, ralph peters has also written several
good books of military fiction, among them "red army", world war 3 from the
soviet point of view in the style of "world war 3 august 1985", "the war in
2020" which resonates eerily just now and "bravo romeo" which i'll admit i
haven't read yet so can't comment on but if it is up to the level of the
others it should be a good read.
"gunner"
-------------------------
"Ed Johnson" <eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote in message
news:aro48v8sdr9lv42hm0t45k8dpp73p6q9gb@4ax.com...
> All:
> I got this from Doc today. Worth reading.
>
>
> http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/71835.htm
>
> (For those of you new the Forum, 'Doc' or "Doc-ObiWan" is
> a.k.a. Lt. Colonel Charles F. Coffin, retired, US Army Special
> Forces.)
>
>
> Ed J
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22342
From: fader555@aol.com (Fader)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 06:40:50 GMT
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Sun, 30 Mar 2003 15:50:43 -0500, Jane Davitt <jdavitt01@rogers.com>
wrote:
>I love the books but I've never seen the film; heard it was more of a
>spoof like the James Coburn film; In Like Flynn was it? I forget.
>
In Like Flint & Our Man Flint, two of my guilty pleasures.
Fader
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22343
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 23:07:22 -0500
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Fader: Do you remember Flint's clever wrist-watch? I liked the
silent way it's alarm woke him up.
Ed
On Mon, 31 Mar 2003 06:40:50 GMT, fader555@aol.com (Fader) wrote:
>On Sun, 30 Mar 2003 15:50:43 -0500, Jane Davitt <jdavitt01@rogers.com>
>wrote:
>
>>I love the books but I've never seen the film; heard it was more of a
>>spoof like the James Coburn film; In Like Flynn was it? I forget.
>>
>In Like Flint & Our Man Flint, two of my guilty pleasures.
>
>Fader
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22344
From: fader555@aol.com (Fader)
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 07:04:15 GMT
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Tue, 01 Apr 2003 23:07:22 -0500, Ed Johnson
<eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote:
>Fader: Do you remember Flint's clever wrist-watch? I liked the
>silent way it's alarm woke him up.
The winder came out & tapped on his wrist restarting his pulse, but
the lighter with the 83 different functions was better.
I also was a fan of Matt Helm.
Fader
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22345
From: Robert NItsche"
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 07:11:47 -0600
Subject: 1st Edition Heinlein Books for Sale
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Hello,
For those interested, I am selling some very rare early (1940s-60's) 1st
edition hardback books. They are nearly all Science Fiction. Some of the
authors are Robert Heinlein, L Ron Hubbard, Frank Herbert, Ray Bradbury,
Isaac Asimov, Author C. Clarke, L Spague de Camp , EE Smith, HP Lovecraft,
and Robert Howard among many others. I have set the price way below market
value. This is a sale for the estate of a avid collector.
You can see all my auctions at this link:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&include=0&userid
=tranham&sort=3&rows=25&since=-1&rd=1
Thank you for looking
Robert
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22346
From: David M. Silver"
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 16:31:23 -0800
Subject: Re: Ginny's dear friend Laura Heywood
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"James R. Cunningham" wrote:
> Laura died tonight from a massive heart attack suffered yesterday. She
> went by to check on Ginny almost every day for the last couple of years,
> and there is no doubt in my mind that she was responsible for
> significantly extending Ginny's life. She is survived by her husband
> Bill and her son John, and my heart goes out to them. She will be
> missed. Snowy has become John's cat over the last few months, and he
> will continue to have a good home.
> JimC
Laura was the wonderful lady who let most of us know, sadly, that Ginny had
died. She was gracious, loyal, and truly cared for Ginny -- and by
extension, all of Ginny's friends. She became a "new friend" to many of us
in February 2003, but that lasted all to short a time. Some of us were
asked, after Ginny died, if we wished any small token that had belonged to
Ginny. I declined, as I had never met Ginny personally, and knew there were
many who had known her personally for many years. And Ginny had sent me a
few books over the years. Nevertheless, a week before Laura died, I
received a little package from her, containing a set of Ginny's penguin
cufflinks -- Ginny collected penguins. Laura was a gracious lady and knew
when to ignore "no." My family will treasure that little token; and my wife
and daughter will wear them on appropriate occasions in memory of both
Ginny and Laura.
David
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22347
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 19:41:20 -0500
Subject: Re: 1st Edition Heinlein Books for Sale
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Robert:
Cool! It is good to see some musty old Heinlein hardback books up
for sale.
It is also the first time I have placed a bid on ebay.
Thanks for letting us know of this sale.
Ed J
On Fri, 4 Apr 2003 07:11:47 -0600, "Robert NItsche"
<tranham@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Hello,
>
>
>
>For those interested, I am selling some very rare early (1940s-60's) 1st
>edition hardback books. They are nearly all Science Fiction. Some of the
>authors are Robert Heinlein, L Ron Hubbard, Frank Herbert, Ray Bradbury,
>Isaac Asimov, Author C. Clarke, L Spague de Camp , EE Smith, HP Lovecraft,
>and Robert Howard among many others. I have set the price way below market
>value. This is a sale for the estate of a avid collector.
>
>
>
>You can see all my auctions at this link:
>
>
>
>
>
>http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&include=0&userid=tranham&sort=3&rows=25&since=-1&rd=1
>
>
>
>
>
>Thank you for looking
>
>
>
>Robert
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22348
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 19:45:24 -0500
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Fader:
IIRC, wasn't Matt played by Dean Martin?
He had more fun than Flint, IMHO.<g>
Ed
On Wed, 02 Apr 2003 07:04:15 GMT, fader555@aol.com (Fader) wrote:
<snip>
>
>The winder came out & tapped on his wrist restarting his pulse, but
>the lighter with the 83 different functions was better.
>
>I also was a fan of Matt Helm.
>
>Fader
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22349
From: les@vrolyk.org (Les Vrolyk)
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 00:50:40 GMT
Subject: Red Thunder
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Howdy fellow HFers.
Just wanted to remind you that John Varley's latest book, Red Thunder
is now out. Everyone here will probably recognize names and other
things from the book. It's loads of fun! I thought it was great and
JP liked it also.
Hope everyone is well!
Les
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22350
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 01:04:56 GMT
Subject: Re: Red Thunder
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Sat, 05 Apr 2003 00:50:40 GMT, les@vrolyk.org (Les Vrolyk) wrote:
>Howdy fellow HFers.
>Just wanted to remind you that John Varley's latest book, Red Thunder
>is now out. Everyone here will probably recognize names and other
>things from the book. It's loads of fun! I thought it was great and
>JP liked it also.
>Hope everyone is well!
>Les
>
Long Time no see, Les. Hope you are feeling OK and as-yet-to-come-out
Vrolyk #2 is taking it easy on you!
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22351
From: David Wright"
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 20:08:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Ginny's dear friend Laura Heywood
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"David M. Silver" <ag.plusone@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3E8E23DA.4D007CAD@verizon.net...
>
>
> "James R. Cunningham" wrote:
>
> > Laura died tonight from a massive heart attack suffered yesterday. She
> > went by to check on Ginny almost every day for the last couple of years,
> > and there is no doubt in my mind that she was responsible for
> > significantly extending Ginny's life. She is survived by her husband
> > Bill and her son John, and my heart goes out to them. She will be
> > missed. Snowy has become John's cat over the last few months, and he
> > will continue to have a good home.
> > JimC
>
> Laura was the wonderful lady who let most of us know, sadly, that Ginny
had
> died. She was gracious, loyal, and truly cared for Ginny -- and by
> extension, all of Ginny's friends. She became a "new friend" to many of us
> in February 2003, but that lasted all to short a time. Some of us were
> asked, after Ginny died, if we wished any small token that had belonged to
> Ginny. I declined, as I had never met Ginny personally, and knew there
were
> many who had known her personally for many years. And Ginny had sent me a
> few books over the years. Nevertheless, a week before Laura died, I
> received a little package from her, containing a set of Ginny's penguin
> cufflinks -- Ginny collected penguins. Laura was a gracious lady and knew
> when to ignore "no." My family will treasure that little token; and my
wife
> and daughter will wear them on appropriate occasions in memory of both
> Ginny and Laura.
>
I guess that that makes us both members of the 'Penquin Club'. Laura sent me
a set also. My wife immediately put them in her jewelry box as she said I
would lose them!. Did you know that Laura actually made them for Ginny? Or,
at least, as she said to me, that she put the parts together knowing how
much Ginny loved penquins.
David (the sadder and elder)
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22352
From: Catherine Hampton
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 19:46:00 -0800
Subject: Re: 1st Edition Heinlein Books for Sale
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Fri, 4 Apr 2003 07:11:47 -0600, "Robert NItsche"
<tranham@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>For those interested, I am selling some very rare early (1940s-60's) 1st
>edition hardback books. They are nearly all Science Fiction. Some of the
>authors are Robert Heinlein, L Ron Hubbard, Frank Herbert, Ray Bradbury,
>Isaac Asimov, Author C. Clarke, L Spague de Camp , EE Smith, HP Lovecraft,
>and Robert Howard among many others. I have set the price way below market
>value. This is a sale for the estate of a avid collector.
Robert -- that first edition of "Dune" is which printing? :)
--
Ariel (aka Catherine Hampton) <ariel@tempest.boxmail.com>
===========================================================
Home Page * <http://www.devsite.org/>
Human Rights Web * <http://www.hrweb.org/>
The SpamBouncer * <http://www.spambouncer.org/>
(Please use this address for replies -- the address in my header is a
spam trap.)
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22353
From: fader555@aol.com (Fader)
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 14:03:35 GMT
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Fri, 04 Apr 2003 19:45:24 -0500, Ed Johnson
<eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote:
>Fader:
> IIRC, wasn't Matt played by Dean Martin?
>He had more fun than Flint, IMHO.<g>
He was indeed, & while he might have been somewhat more camp than
Flint, I don't know that he had more fun. Flint always seemed to be
enjoying himself emensely.
Fader
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22354
From: fader555@aol.com (Fader)
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 14:09:21 GMT
Subject: Re: Red Thunder
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Sat, 05 Apr 2003 00:50:40 GMT, les@vrolyk.org (Les Vrolyk) wrote:
Glad to see you, I sent you guys a email awhile back & didn't get an
answer, thought you'd been abducted by aliens again.
Hope things are going OK for you guys.
Fader
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22355
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 01:05:50 GMT
Subject: DVD formats
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I've started to think more about getting a DVD burner. However, I'm
interested in the opinions of the 'tech-savvy' here as to who is
winning the format battle. I think there were three formats, but it
seems like DVD-R or DVD+R are the two leaders (I'm not really
interested in RW technology right now.)
So, the two questions are--
1. What are the strengths of each format?
2. Which one's gonna be VHS and which one's the Betamax?
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22356
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 23:50:34 -0500
Subject: Re: DVD formats
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
>
> So, the two questions are--
> 1. What are the strengths of each format?
> 2. Which one's gonna be VHS and which one's the Betamax?
Most important: Which one will play in your home DVD player, or your
parent's DVD player, etc. Not all non-computer DVD players will read them
all. For example, My Toshiba SV280 DVD Player supports both + and -R, but
not -RW
I suggest you check out www.vcdhelp.com a great site for those thinking
about delving into recording DVDs.
Or buy the Sony DRU500A, and get both + and - R compatibility. Although it
looks like DVD-R is likely to be the more compatible standard, IMHO.
WJaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22357
From: Filksinger"
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 23:53:48 -0800
Subject: Re: DVD formats
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT wrote:
> So, the two questions are--
> 1. What are the strengths of each format?
Approximately equivallent. There are two DVD-R formats, DVD-R(G) (General
Use) and DVD-R(A) (Authoring Use). Neither type can use blanks of the other
type. General use are most common, cheapest, and designed to not allow
copying of standard DVDs. Note that this can probably be overcome by
software fairly readilty. DVD-R(G) is also the type most compatible in
Recordable format with standard DVDs and DVD drives, by a small amount,
though DVD-RW disks are possibly very slightly less compatible than DVD+RW.
DVD+R is more expensive than DVD-R (though it is dropping more rapidly),
less common, and slightly less compatible. Technically, they aren't DVDs at
all, because the DVD Forum doesn't officially recognize them. They do not
have two different types for general use and authoring. They are supported
by their own, independent, consortium.
Otherwise, they are pretty much the same.
> 2. Which one's gonna be VHS and which one's the Betamax?
Too close to call. The DVD-R format has the highest market penetration so
far, but that doesn't mean they won't be beaten out in the end. DVD+R format
does have, _IF_ I understand right, the advantage of being more easily used
to copy copyrighted DVDs. The compatibility issue is pretty close, with an
estimated 4% advantage to DVD-R(G) over DVD+R, and a 1% advantage to DVD+RW
over DVD-RW. It is also rapidly becoming moot.
You may want to look into multi-format DVD recordable drives. There are
drives that will write to all of these formats.
Hope I have managed to confuse you.
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22358
From: John Paul Vrolyk
Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 09:28:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Red Thunder
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Fader wrote:
> Glad to see you, I sent you guys a email awhile back & didn't get an
> answer, thought you'd been abducted by aliens again.
If it was between February 21 and March 1, a computer screw-up lost
most the email I got then.
> Hope things are going OK for you guys.
Not too bad. Actually, other than my continued unemployment,
things are pretty good. And some decent prospects for fixing
that have shown up lately, too.
We may end up moving closer to you, Fader. I've got an interview
with Notre Dame this week.
Oh, and I'll second the thumbs-up of Red Thunder. It's mostly
believable near-future stuff, with one gimmick technology that is
clearly just a gimmick off of which to hang the story. I forgive
that pretty easily, though, because it's such a gosh-darn cute story.
And chock-full of Heinlein references, too.
--
John Paul Vrolyk
jp@vrolyk.org
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22359
From: fader555@aol.com (Fader)
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 06:52:26 GMT
Subject: Re: Red Thunder
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Sun, 06 Apr 2003 09:28:54 -0400, John Paul Vrolyk <jp@vrolyk.org>
wrote:
>Not too bad. Actually, other than my continued unemployment,
>things are pretty good. And some decent prospects for fixing
>that have shown up lately, too.
>
That's good
>We may end up moving closer to you, Fader. I've got an interview
>with Notre Dame this week.
>
I've heard of it, where's it at?
>Oh, and I'll second the thumbs-up of Red Thunder. It's mostly
>believable near-future stuff, with one gimmick technology that is
>clearly just a gimmick off of which to hang the story. I forgive
>that pretty easily, though, because it's such a gosh-darn cute story.
>And chock-full of Heinlein references, too.
Love references, I'll have to check it out.
Good Luck at the interview
Fader
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22360
From: John Paul Vrolyk
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 09:03:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Red Thunder
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Fader wrote:
> >We may end up moving closer to you, Fader. I've got an interview
> >with Notre Dame this week.
> >
> I've heard of it, where's it at?
South Bend, IN. They say 3 hours north of Indianapolis and 2 hours
east of Chicago.
--
John Paul Vrolyk
jp@vrolyk.org
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22361
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 13:24:09 -0400
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Fader: Maybe I was just being subjective while watching those
movies. <G>. Flint was more fun for me to watch than any Bond
movie.
Ed
On Sat, 05 Apr 2003 14:03:35 GMT, fader555@aol.com (Fader) wrote:
>On Fri, 04 Apr 2003 19:45:24 -0500, Ed Johnson
><eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote:
>
>>Fader:
>> IIRC, wasn't Matt played by Dean Martin?
>>He had more fun than Flint, IMHO.<g>
>
>He was indeed, & while he might have been somewhat more camp than
>Flint, I don't know that he had more fun. Flint always seemed to be
>enjoying himself emensely.
>
>Fader
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22362
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 00:35:44 GMT
Subject: Re: DVD formats
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Sat, 5 Apr 2003 23:53:48 -0800, "Filksinger"
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:
>Hope I have managed to confuse you.
>--
Well, a little. WJaKe actually had the crux of the problem. Which
one offers the "purest" DVD format that a read-only older (say a
year-and-a-half-old) DVD player will use?
As he guessed, I'm mostly interested in taking video of the kids and
being able to play in a standalone DVD player. For the grandparents
it's actually moot since they don't yet have one and I can ensure
compatibility, but I already have two DVD players and don't want to
replace either for some years. ;)
I've been playing with VCDs but I'm not happy with the quality of the
format. I'm not ready to go to the digital camcorder/DVD combo yet,
though--my analog camcorder, while cumbersome, does great VHS.
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22363
From: fader555@aol.com (Fader)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 03:52:07 GMT
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Mon, 07 Apr 2003 13:24:09 -0400, Ed Johnson
<eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote:
>Fader: Maybe I was just being subjective while watching those
>movies. <G>. Flint was more fun for me to watch than any Bond
>movie.
Bond was somewhat more serious in those days, these days more
ridiculous. I haven't seen one in awhile, kinda gave them up when they
ran out of books, not that they followed them that well anyway.
Fader
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22364
From: fader555@aol.com (Fader)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 03:56:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Red Thunder
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Mon, 07 Apr 2003 09:03:34 -0400, John Paul Vrolyk <jp@vrolyk.org>
wrote:
>South Bend, IN. They say 3 hours north of Indianapolis and 2 hours
>east of Chicago.
>
Ah, then I imagine that would also be the home of the South bend
Chocolate Co. Is the interview here in IN? Let me know if I can help
in anyway.
Fader
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22365
From: Charles Graft
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 19:27:45 -0500
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Jane--
The "Modesty Blaise" film is available on either VHS or DVD at
Amazon.
I have a few of the books I found for a quarter each that I
enjoyed. I have not been able to find the others.
--
<<Big Charlie>>
"Democracy is a form of worship. It is the worship of jackals by
jackasses." -- H. L. Menken
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22366
From: Jane Davitt
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 22:02:58 -0400
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Charles Graft wrote:
> Jane--
> The "Modesty Blaise" film is available on either VHS or DVD at
> Amazon.
>
> I have a few of the books I found for a quarter each that I
> enjoyed. I have not been able to find the others.
>
>
>
I have every one including Cobra Trap, the final book of short stories
that has the very last Modesty story. I can't read that one without
crying...
I'll look out for the film but if it plays it for laughs I'm not sure
I'm interested. Thanks for the heads up, though :-)
Jane
--
Read my Buffy the Vampire Slayer fiction at
http://members.rogers.com/jdavitt01/index.html
http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=231516
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22367
From: James R. Cunningham"
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 09:57:14 -0700
Subject: Re: An Odd Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I also took the MB stories seriously. Haven't seen the movie.
JimC
Jane Davitt wrote:
>
> Charles Graft wrote:
> > Jane--
> > The "Modesty Blaise" film is available on either VHS or DVD at
> > Amazon.
> >
> > I have a few of the books I found for a quarter each that I
> > enjoyed. I have not been able to find the others.
> >
>
> >
> >
>
> I have every one including Cobra Trap, the final book of short stories
> that has the very last Modesty story. I can't read that one without
> crying...
>
> I'll look out for the film but if it plays it for laughs I'm not sure
> I'm interested. Thanks for the heads up, though :-)
>
> Jane
>
> --
> Read my Buffy the Vampire Slayer fiction at
> http://members.rogers.com/jdavitt01/index.html
> http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=231516
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22368
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:58:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Iraq update
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Any comments on this piece?
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/charleskrauthammer/ck20030410.shtml
"Gulf War II is first of its kind"
by Charles Krauthammer
April 10, 2003
I thought it was eye opening.
Ed J
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22369
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 23:39:42 GMT
Subject: Re: Iraq update
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:58:45 -0400, Ed Johnson
<eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote:
>I thought it was eye opening.
>
I think he makes a valid point. But what I wonder now is--do we now
have an imperative to fix all the 'bad' regimes in the world?
Otherwise, if the message they (the bad regimes) are getting is "leave
the U.S. & its citizens alone because you WILL go down", then I guess
it may prove to be worth it in the long run.
Oh, and I'm really tired of "shock & awe".
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22370
From: Gordon G. Sollars
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 23:32:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Iraq update
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
In article <3e95fefe.192112156@news.sff.net>, JT@REM0VE.sff.net says...
> On Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:58:45 -0400, Ed Johnson
> <eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote:
> >I thought it was eye opening.
> >
> I think he makes a valid point. But what I wonder now is--do we now
> have an imperative to fix all the 'bad' regimes in the world?
It was very interesting to see how good the technology was, and what it
now makes possible, but I figured that out on my own without
Krauthammer's help. I used to think that we probably should have ended
Hussein's regime during GW I, but to have done it with the weapons we
had then would have cost far more lives. On the hand, from a political
standpoint we had far more support then.
> Otherwise, if the message they (the bad regimes) are getting is "leave
> the U.S. & its citizens alone because you WILL go down", then I guess
> it may prove to be worth it in the long run.
Speaking of long runs, Bush's former ambassador to Afghanistan said
today that we would need to stay in Iraq for about five years. So
Krauthammer's "Three-Week" war might just possibly be a slightly
misleading appellation. He might want to remember something about "He
who laughs last...", but I sincerely hope he is right. What I find
interesting is that that hawks did not say /in advance/ that this would
be a three-week war - indeed we were immediately reminded after it
started that no one in the administration had actually "really" said it
would be quick - but now the pundits are treating us to all the
mistakes the doves made in print. The doves at least had the courage to
make a prediction.
That, indeed, is the problem. I have hoped the hawks were right once it
was clear that Bush would invade; let's always hope for the best. But
if Krauthammer is such a genius, he could have written that piece before
the war. Surely the U.S. military would not /plan/ to take more
civilian lives than its technology made necessary. So when he mentions
"panicked Cassandras", based on /his/ knowledge, he is just whooping
about having won a coin toss - which any idiot can do half the time.
--
Gordon Sollars
gsollars@pobox.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22371
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 23:27:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Iraq update
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I wonder if Iraq would make a good base of operations to "fix all
the 'bad' regimes" adjacent to it? Food for thought.
Ed J
On Thu, 10 Apr 2003 23:39:42 GMT, JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT) wrote:
>>
>I think he makes a valid point. But what I wonder now is--do we now
>have an imperative to fix all the 'bad' regimes in the world?
>
>Otherwise, if the message they (the bad regimes) are getting is "leave
>the U.S. & its citizens alone because you WILL go down", then I guess
>it may prove to be worth it in the long run.
>
>Oh, and I'm really tired of "shock & awe".
>
>JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22372
From: David M. Silver"
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 10:05:37 -0700
Subject: Re: Iraq update
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Ed Johnson wrote:
> I wonder if Iraq would make a good base of operations to "fix all
> the 'bad' regimes" adjacent to it? Food for thought.
>
> Ed J
Heh. Ashore, or getting into place at the present time, are the following
U.S. ground combat units (only, to say nothing of the British, the Air
Forces and the Navy, and its air):
1. The Third Infantry Division (Mech);
2. The First Marine MEF (which is the 1st MarDiv, plus what seems to be
most of the 2dMarDiv, plus their air support, judging from regiments
identified from 'embeded' reports);
3. The 101st Airborne Division (Airmobile);
4. At least a Brigade of the 82d Airborne Division;
5. The 173d Airborne Brigade;
6. A whole slew of Special Operations Forces;
and coming ashore and taking up position are:
7. The Fourth Infantry Division (Mech);
8. The First Cavalry Division (Armor);
9. What sounds like at least a battalion landing force of Marines to
reinforce the 173d in the north in Mosul;
10. The First Armored Division; and,
11. The 3d Armored Cavalry Regiment.
If I were governing Syria, I would be very, VERY heedful of the warnings
recently publicized about giving refuge to leaders of the deposed Iraqi
Ba'ath Party. Look at the maps. Syria would be in a whole mess of trouble,
judging from the lovely tank country terrain, and what we think we know
about relative strength of troops and equipment, if two U.S. armor and two
fully-mechanized infantry divisions were turned loose from the East.
If I were governing Iran, I would think twice about snatching a chunk of
Iraq, or raiding very far into Iraq to pursue opponents of my regime, no
matter how provocative they act. The terrain is a lot lousier, but who
said you must invade, until you're ready.
[snip]
Let's say the situation on the ground has possibilities. Ones I hope no
one is compelled to use.
David
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22373
From: Filksinger"
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:41:04 -0700
Subject: Another silly question
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
This is something I know to be true, but I've got an argumentative, uhm,
person I'm dealing with on an email list, and he wants some sort of
authoritative answer.
Does anyone around here have experience with handcuffs, and ankle cuffs, if
possible? Specifically, is it true that handcuffs do not usually, or at
least reliably, fit around ankles?
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22374
From: Wendy of NJ
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 07:12:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Another silly question
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
in general, I would concur. Unless a person has very narrow ankles,
handcuffs won't fit. I have 'play' experience with handcuffs, and
thought they were fun, until I got picked up by the police (on a traffic
arrest - driving under a suspended license) and was cuffed by law
enforcement. Now I hate the sight of them.
Filksinger wrote:
> This is something I know to be true, but I've got an argumentative, uhm,
> person I'm dealing with on an email list, and he wants some sort of
> authoritative answer.
>
> Does anyone around here have experience with handcuffs, and ankle cuffs, if
> possible? Specifically, is it true that handcuffs do not usually, or at
> least reliably, fit around ankles?
>
> --
> Filksinger
> AKA David Nasset, Sr.
> Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22375
From: William Jennings"
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 15:33:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Another silly question
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I don't know if this helps, but I tried this simple experiment. I CAN wrap
my fingers around my wrists so that the middle finger and thumb touch. I
can't get more then three-quarters around my ankles attempting the same.
Also, wrists are elongated ovals, ankles are rounder ovals.
There is also the distinction that you have handcuffs for wrists, but for
ankles you have shackles.
--------
Will in Central Texas
"Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message
news:3e9a2ddb.0@news.sff.net...
> This is something I know to be true, but I've got an argumentative, uhm,
> person I'm dealing with on an email list, and he wants some sort of
> authoritative answer.
>
> Does anyone around here have experience with handcuffs, and ankle cuffs,
if
> possible? Specifically, is it true that handcuffs do not usually, or at
> least reliably, fit around ankles?
>
> --
> Filksinger
> AKA David Nasset, Sr.
> Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22376
From: Charles Graft
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 18:52:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Another silly question
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Filksinger--
You hit an area that has always fascinated me. Weird, Huh?
The main difference between handcuffs and legcuffs is 1) size and 2)
length of chain. Legcuffs are designed so that the victim can walk but
not run (or ride a horse); typically with about 18" of chain. There are
oversized handcuffs available for people with very large wrists that can
be mis-used as legcuffs on ordinary people and are totally disabling.
Shackles refers to a U-shaped piece of metal with a bar that can be
fitted across the open end. They require tools (typically pliers)
rather than keys to release. Shackles were quite common aboard sailing
vessels for rope handling and to forth and were if necessary pressed
into service as either handcuffs or legcuffs. "Leg irons" normally
refers to hardware that is hammered or riveted to fit. These usually
required hammer and cold chisel to release.
Any type of leg iron can (and has to) fit very loosely to allow the
person to walk. This is because the tendons in the heel move quite a
distance away from the bone as the person leans forward on his foot.
But the heel is so large in comparison to the ankle that they can be
quite loose and not be slipped.
To specifically answer your question, yes, handcuffs can be put on
the ankles of a person with small enough ankles. It is very disabling,
though. Even if they be fit, the chain is too short to allow walking or
even much standing.
Check out:
------------------------------------------------------
Yossie's Handcuff Collection
Welcome to Yossie's Handcuff Collection. In 1995, when the internet
was "new", I decided to put my (at the time) small collection ...
Description: A personal collection of Handcuffs, Leg Irons, and other
insitutional and historical restraint devices....
Category: Recreation > Collecting > Out of the Ordinary
www.blacksteel.com/hcs.html - 10k - Cached - Similar pages
----------------------------------------------------------------
Also many others.
--
<<Big Charlie>>
"Democracy is a form of worship. It is the worship of jackals by
jackasses." -- H. L. Menken
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22377
From: James R. Cunningham"
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:45:47 -0700
Subject: Re: Another silly question
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
They won't keep you from riding a horse. You just sit the horse
sidesaddle.
JimC
Charles Graft wrote:
> Legcuffs are designed so that the victim can walk but
> not run (or ride a horse);
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22378
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:44:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Another silly question
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JimC:
Just out of curiosity: without that special-made 'side saddle'
strapped to the horse, can a person actually "ride" a horse
bare-back sideways without falling off? Or can a standard, western
style saddle accomodate a person sideways (whereas you can hold onto
the pommel to keep from falling off)? Inquiring minds would like to
know.
Ed J
On Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:45:47 -0700, "James R. Cunningham"
<jrccea@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>They won't keep you from riding a horse. You just sit the horse
>sidesaddle.
>JimC
>
>Charles Graft wrote:
>
>> Legcuffs are designed so that the victim can walk but
>> not run (or ride a horse);
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22379
From: David M. Silver"
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 04:52:41 -0700
Subject: Re: Another silly question
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Ed Johnson wrote:
> JimC:
> Just out of curiosity: without that special-made 'side saddle'
> strapped to the horse, can a person actually "ride" a horse
> bare-back sideways without falling off? Or can a standard, western
> style saddle accomodate a person sideways (whereas you can hold onto
> the pommel to keep from falling off)? Inquiring minds would like to
> know.
>
> Ed J
>
Don't know how Jim from Tennessee will answer, but when I was a little
boy, just after WW2 in Hollywood, there was a movie theatre called the
"Hitching Post," near Gower Gulch that got visited on the weekend
matinees by whoever was in town and available to amuse the kids. Saw
several of them (first time I ever saw Ben Johnson, for instance, that I
noticed him) on western stock saddles ride side-saddle. What they'd do
is hook a leg, usually their right leg, up over the horn, and throw both
stirrups over the left side of the horse, using one for their other
boot. I suspect they also made damned sure the cinch was tight and the
horse was used to it.
Gower Gulch was where the Hollywood cowboy-extras, and sometimes their
mounts, used to camp out and near where Heinlein placed the bar in his
mystery "They Do It With Mirrors." Since about 1954, it's the roadbed of
the Hollywood Freeway between downtown Los Angeles and the San Fernando
Valley.
David
>
> On Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:45:47 -0700, "James R. Cunningham"
> <jrccea@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> >They won't keep you from riding a horse. You just sit the horse
> >sidesaddle.
> >JimC
> >
> >Charles Graft wrote:
> >
> >> Legcuffs are designed so that the victim can walk but
> >> not run (or ride a horse);
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22380
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 10:43:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Another silly question
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
David: That extra show at the "Hitching Post's" matinee sounds
cool!
I guess that if someone was in leg-irons and had a dire need to
escape on a horse, they would manage somehow.
Ed J
On Tue, 15 Apr 2003 04:52:41 -0700, "David M. Silver"
<ag.plusone@verizon.net> wrote:
<snip>
>>
>
>Don't know how Jim from Tennessee will answer, but when I was a little
>boy, just after WW2 in Hollywood, there was a movie theatre called the
>"Hitching Post," near Gower Gulch that got visited on the weekend
>matinees by whoever was in town and available to amuse the kids. Saw
>several of them (first time I ever saw Ben Johnson, for instance, that I
>noticed him) on western stock saddles ride side-saddle. What they'd do
>is hook a leg, usually their right leg, up over the horn, and throw both
>stirrups over the left side of the horse, using one for their other
>boot. I suspect they also made damned sure the cinch was tight and the
>horse was used to it.
>
>Gower Gulch was where the Hollywood cowboy-extras, and sometimes their
>mounts, used to camp out and near where Heinlein placed the bar in his
>mystery "They Do It With Mirrors." Since about 1954, it's the roadbed of
>the Hollywood Freeway between downtown Los Angeles and the San Fernando
>Valley.
>
>David
>
>>
>> On Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:45:47 -0700, "James R. Cunningham"
>> <jrccea@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>
>> >They won't keep you from riding a horse. You just sit the horse
>> >sidesaddle.
>> >JimC
>> >
>> >Charles Graft wrote:
>> >
>> >> Legcuffs are designed so that the victim can walk but
>> >> not run (or ride a horse);
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22381
From: James R. Cunningham"
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 10:45:34 -0700
Subject: Re: Another silly question
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
David M. Silver wrote:
> Don't know how Jim from Tennessee will answer,
About as you, though I forgot to send it to the group (a copy is
inserted below).
> (first time I ever saw Ben Johnson, for instance, that I
> noticed him) on western stock saddles ride side-saddle.
Ben Johnson was as fine a rider as ever lived. Very impressive.
> I suspect they also made damned sure the cinch was tight and the
> horse was used to it.
Typically, the horse don't much care. Re the cinch, if you ride well
enough you don't need to have the saddle cinched at all. You just
balance it as you balance yourself. I no longer ride that well. Been a
long time now since I used a horse for transportation (when I was a kid,
I couldn't afford a car of my own).
Inserted earlier response follows
Ed Johnson wrote:
>
> JimC:
> Just out of curiosity: without that special-made 'side saddle'
> strapped to the horse, can a person actually "ride" a horse
> bare-back sideways without falling off?
Of course. And if it's a decent horse, you don't need a bridle or
hackamore either. Usually you don't sit straight sideways; you sit at
about a 45 degree angle with your butt dead-centered on the horse's
spine, and your forward leg cocked forward so that your forward knee is
also fairly far forward. The horse that I mostly did this with
preferred to use a left lead (though he would change leads when I wanted
him to, or when turning right), so I usually rode facing sort of
leftward when doing this.
> Or can a standard, western
> style saddle accomodate a person sideways (whereas you can hold onto
> the pommel to keep from falling off)?
I guess it could and the saddle would probably be most comfortable if
you draped your forward knee over the saddlehorn, but it'd be far easier
and more comfortable bareback. And why would anyone want to hold onto
the pommel anyway?
Inquiring minds would like to
> know.
>
> Ed J
>
> On Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:45:47 -0700, "James R. Cunningham"
> <jrccea@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> >They won't keep you from riding a horse. You just sit the horse
> >sidesaddle.
> >JimC
> >
> >Charles Graft wrote:
> >
> >> Legcuffs are designed so that the victim can walk but
> >> not run (or ride a horse);
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22382
From: James R. Cunningham"
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 10:47:14 -0700
Subject: Re: Another silly question
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
P.S. I'm actually from Arkansas. Moved to Tennessee in an attempt to
make a living.
JimC
> >Don't know how Jim from Tennessee will answer,
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22383
From: David Wright"
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 18:00:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Another silly question
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"James R. Cunningham" <jrccea@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3E9C45A2.CDF74F40@bellsouth.net...
> P.S. I'm actually from Arkansas. Moved to Tennessee in an attempt to
> make a living.
> JimC
Where in Tenn? Jim. I live just south of Chagganooga in Georgia and went to
college in Sewanee.
--
David Wright
http://www.alltel.net/~dwrighsr/index.html
http://heinleinsociety.org
Help us prepare for the upcoming Centennial of the birthday of Robert A.
Heinlein
http://heinlein100.org
Anytime is a good time to join us in The Heinlein Society
http://heinleinsociety.org/membership.html
http://heinleinsociety.org/join.html
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22384
From: David M. Silver"
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 16:56:28 -0700
Subject: Re: Another silly question
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Ed Johnson wrote:
> David: That extra show at the "Hitching Post's" matinee sounds
> cool!
It was the ultimate attraction for little kids in post-WW2 Hollywood. We'd
all dress up in our cowboy and cowgirl outfits, hats, chaps, vests, boots,
gunbelts and cap pistols. The moms would drop us off for the matinee; and
usually accompany us in as far the candy stand for purchases. Then they'd
escape -- some of them, my mother included, heading for the local Griffith
Park golf course. You had to check your cap pistols at the candy stand --
thank God, it was probably the only way they could keep ushers employed.
Imagine trying to stop a cap pistol war between 200 or 300 five to ten or
so-year-old kids. [But someone -- most of us -- would always smuggle in a
'loaded' derringer, so there were always small shoot outs and ushers
pursuing down the aisles less than completely disciplined brats such as me
during the show. There was a place (a vacant office), called the Hoosegow,
they'd confine you to until your mom showed up to pick you up and blister
your butt if you caused too much trouble; but usually they'd just confiscate
your "hold out," chew you out, and you'd get it back when you left.]. After
candy purchases, we'd go in to a show of usually four or five cartoons, then
two or three serials, then a double feature of old four reelers (sometimes a
triple), and between the features, the live cowboy shows featuring whoever
they had that week -- sometimes it was even Gene Autry and Champion and,
rarely, Roy Rogers and Dale Evans, Trigger and Buttermilk. Usually, there
would be four of five of them, with their horses: the Republic Pictures
stars (the Three Mesquiters, etc., including occasionally one whose real
name was Marion Morrison) were commonly there: Bob Steele was a regular and
very popular. Lash LaRue, many others. They bring horses up onto the stage
sometimes, but they also had an enclosed side lot where they would perform
demonstrations of horsemanship.
And, yes, Jim, Ben Johnson was one of the finest horsemen who ever graced
us.
During the Korean War, it closed down; but one of the regulars for the
Hitching Post shows, Tim McCoy, got a television program on a local station
(channel 11, iirc); and most of us watched it religiously, transferring our
affection to it. McCoy was an interesting fellow: a regular Army Cavalry
officer who retired a few years before WW2, very handsome and boyish
looking, so he played a few bit roles while being a consultant for many of
the old black and white cowboy movies. He played the Lieutenant leading the
patrol in "Stagecoach" (1941), for example. McCoy looked a lot older than
that during and post Korea, had a sweeping handlebar mustache, and would put
on little featurettes about cowboy lore between reels of the cowboy movies
they showed on the television program. He was known as "Colonel McCoy" on
the program, so possibly he retired at that rank, (Col. or Lt.Col.). His
program lasted until the late 1950s locally.
It wasn't too bad growing up in Hollywood in the late 40s and 50s, despite
our discovery of smog in 1954. Not many of us felt our only choices were to
be 'steers, queers, or have hotrods coming out of our arse.' ;-) But most of
us grew up to be doctors and lawyers and stuff.
David
>
> I guess that if someone was in leg-irons and had a dire need to
> escape on a horse, they would manage somehow.
>
> Ed J
>
> On Tue, 15 Apr 2003 04:52:41 -0700, "David M. Silver"
> <ag.plusone@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> <snip>
> >>
> >
> >Don't know how Jim from Tennessee will answer, but when I was a little
> >boy, just after WW2 in Hollywood, there was a movie theatre called the
> >"Hitching Post," near Gower Gulch that got visited on the weekend
> >matinees by whoever was in town and available to amuse the kids. Saw
> >several of them (first time I ever saw Ben Johnson, for instance, that I
> >noticed him) on western stock saddles ride side-saddle. What they'd do
> >is hook a leg, usually their right leg, up over the horn, and throw both
> >stirrups over the left side of the horse, using one for their other
> >boot. I suspect they also made damned sure the cinch was tight and the
> >horse was used to it.
> >
> >Gower Gulch was where the Hollywood cowboy-extras, and sometimes their
> >mounts, used to camp out and near where Heinlein placed the bar in his
> >mystery "They Do It With Mirrors." Since about 1954, it's the roadbed of
> >the Hollywood Freeway between downtown Los Angeles and the San Fernando
> >Valley.
> >
> >David
> >
> >>
> >> On Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:45:47 -0700, "James R. Cunningham"
> >> <jrccea@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >They won't keep you from riding a horse. You just sit the horse
> >> >sidesaddle.
> >> >JimC
> >> >
> >> >Charles Graft wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Legcuffs are designed so that the victim can walk but
> >> >> not run (or ride a horse);
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22385
From: James R. Cunningham"
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 21:31:05 -0700
Subject: Re: Another silly question
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Wow !! Though truth to tell, I'm more of a Ben Johnson fan.
JimC
David M. Silver wrote:
> including occasionally one whose real name was Marion Morrison)
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22386
From: Bill Dauphin
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 00:07:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Another silly question
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On 4/15/03 7:56 PM, in article 3E9C9C2D.1C8366BF@verizon.net, "David M.
Silver" <ag.plusone@verizon.net> wrote:
>most of
> us grew up to be doctors and lawyers and stuff.
Well, that's what your mommas was *supposed* to let you grow up to be,
right? At least according to Willie 'n Waylon and the boys!
;^)
-JovBill
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22387
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 22:31:24 GMT
Subject: Re: Another silly question
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Tue, 15 Apr 2003 16:56:28 -0700, "David M. Silver"
<ag.plusone@verizon.net> wrote:
>It was the ultimate attraction for little kids in post-WW2 Hollywood. We'd
>all dress up in our cowboy and cowgirl outfits, hats, chaps, vests, boots,
>gunbelts and cap pistols.
Now I have this really interesting mental picture of you, David. ;)
But seriously, I envy the chance you had to indulge a role-playing
fantasy on such a large scale. Never had a chance then, too repressed
now. :)
JT
(OK, I'll admit somewhere in the Tilden photo albums there's more than
one childhood picture of me dressed up as Batman.... <G>)
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22388
From: David M. Silver"
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 17:20:40 -0700
Subject: The 2003 Heinlein Award -- Your Ballot Recommendation
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Today, I e-mailed the following to all registered Heinlein Society
members. Let me know, by e-mail, if you failed, for some reason, to
receive it.
Now would be a good time to join The Heinlein Society:
http://www.heinleinsociety.org/join.html
The 2003 Heinlein Award -- Your Ballot Recommendation
Board of Directors
The Heinlein Society
PO Box 1254
Venice, California
90294
April 16, 2003
Dear Members of The Heinlein Society and Friends:
Last summer, at Virginia Heinlein's request, Dr, Yoji Kondo (also known
as science fiction author Eric Kotani), announced through Locus
Magazine institution of The Heinlein Award to recognize and reward
outstanding published works in science fiction and technical writings
that inspire the human exploration of space, since that is part of the
legacy of author Robert A. Heinlein.
An eleven member Advisory Board will select the recipient(s): it
includes authors Yoji Kondo (chair), Greg Bear, Joe Haldeman, Elizabeth
Moon, Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle, Spider Robinson, and Stanley
Schmidt and John Hill and Herb Gilliland, both Professors of English,
USNA. The late Charles Sheffield was also an original member of the
advisory board.
The Advisory Board has decided to award one or more Heinlein Awards
this 2003 Labor Day weekend at the World Science Fiction Convention
(TorCon) in Toronto, Canada. The actual awards, consisting of sterling
silver medallion medals (with appropriate ribbons and certificates),
will be presented to the recipient or recipients at an appropriate
dinner function sponsored by The Heinlein Society at TorCon, likely to
be held on the Friday of World Con weekend.
In addition to its own opinions the Advisory Board has decided only
very recently, to extend a privilege to the members of The Heinlein
Society to make non-binding nominations for the Heinlein Award.
This is an unique opportunity not being extended generally to members
of any other organization.
If you are a member of The Heinlein Society in good standing and your
dues are current on April 22, 2003, you are eligible to select a
nominee. That deadline is one week from today.
The work you select need not have been published within the past year.
It need only be a previously published work in either science fiction
or technical writings that you deem outstanding and to inspire the
human exploration of space, worthy of being recognized as carrying
forward the legacy of Robert A. Heinlein.
Recommendations from The Heinlein Society's membership are due to the
Advisory Board by April 22, 2003, the date that would have been
Virginia Heinlein's 87th birthday. The Advisory Board, on its part,
will select recipients of this year's award on July 7, 2003, the date
of the late Robert A. Heinlein's birthday, and announce publicly its
selections at a later appropriate date.
You must reply by return e-mail to the undersigned to express your
recommendation. You may reply by top-posting this e-mail if you wish. I
will compile the results and forward them to the Advisory Board of
Judges. Please make one recommendation, only, identifying the published
work by title, author, and means and date of publication [e.g., for
illustrative purposes, only: "Requiem," Robert A. Heinlein, Astounding
Science Fiction (January 1940), see also: collected in The Man Who Sold
the Moon (1950)]. Do not communicate directly concerning your
recommendation to any members or member of the advisory panel.
I'm looking forward to your replies. Get them in quickly, please, so
that I may timely convey them to the Judges.
FOR THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS
/s/ David M. Silver
David M. Silver
Secretary-Treasurer and Director
The Heinlein Society
--
David M. Silver www.heinleinsociety.org
"The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!"
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA '29, Lt.(jg), USN, R'td, 1907-88
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22389
From: David M. Silver"
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 17:24:17 -0700
Subject: Re: Another silly question
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Apr 2003 16:56:28 -0700, "David M. Silver"
> <ag.plusone@verizon.net> wrote:
> >It was the ultimate attraction for little kids in post-WW2 Hollywood. We'd
> >all dress up in our cowboy and cowgirl outfits, hats, chaps, vests, boots,
> >gunbelts and cap pistols.
> Now I have this really interesting mental picture of you, David. ;)
>
Heh. And whew! My sister doesn't read this newsgroup yet. She has an actual
photo of me in the above-described outfit at about age three. With pinto pony!
>
> But seriously, I envy the chance you had to indulge a role-playing
> fantasy on such a large scale. Never had a chance then, too repressed
> now. :)
>
> JT
>
> (OK, I'll admit somewhere in the Tilden photo albums there's more than
> one childhood picture of me dressed up as Batman.... <G>)
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22390
From: Dee"
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 05:25:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Another silly question
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"David M. Silver" <ag.plusone@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3E9DF432.38855234@verizon.net...
> Heh. And whew! My sister doesn't read this newsgroup yet. She has an
actual
> photo of me in the above-described outfit at about age three. With pinto
pony!
Yeah, but I have her address. Tremble and quake, o silver one! <WEG>
--Dee
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22391
From: James R. Cunningham"
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 06:27:00 -0700
Subject: Re: The 2003 Heinlein Award -- Your Ballot Recommendation
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Actually, to give credit where it is due -- Yoji is the one who
initiated the concept of the Heinlein Award, whereupon some other
friends of Ginny's approached her with the idea, and she graciously
agreed to allow it to become reality. It was not initiated at her
request. I think the SF community owes Yoji quite a debt of gratitude.
Without him, there would have been no Heinlein Award, and there would
have been no Heinlein Crater on Mars.
JimC
David M. Silver wrote:
>
> Last summer, at Virginia Heinlein's request, Dr, Yoji Kondo (also known
> as science fiction author Eric Kotani), announced through Locus
> Magazine institution of The Heinlein Award to recognize and reward
> outstanding published works in science fiction and technical writings
> that inspire the human exploration of space, since that is part of the
> legacy of author Robert A. Heinlein.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22392
From: SpaceCadet
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 11:58:06 -0500
Subject: Interesting NYT Article
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Today's New York Times has an interesting article entitled
"Sci-Fi Shrine for Seattle, Complete With Aliens" about a
guy named Paul G. Allen who "is planning to build a
"cultural project" in Seattle that will seek to draw
visitors into the science-fiction experience."
It sounds hopeful. He's got some good people involved.
According to the article, Mr. Allen was first drawn into sf
after reading a book called "Spaceship Galileo." [sic]
You can read the article at
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/17/arts/design/17SCIF.html
Carol
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22393
From: David M. Silver"
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 10:05:50 -0700
Subject: Re: The 2003 Heinlein Award -- Your Ballot Recommendation
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
A great many people over past years had discussed the idea, for which time
has *finally* come, with Ginny, Jim; and she with them. It was among the
first proposals, for example, discussed in the 1998-1999 period when The
Heinlein Society was being formed. It seemed simply remarkable to those
involved that such an award for writing hadn't been instituted much earlier.
We owe a good deal of gratitute to Yoji for his initiative last year putting
it into implementation and gratitude to many others, including all the
judges on the advisory board for serving.
I'm looking forward to the awards dinner at TorCon when the first
recipient(s) receive the first ever Heinlein Award.
David
"James R. Cunningham" wrote:
> Actually, to give credit where it is due -- Yoji is the one who
> initiated the concept of the Heinlein Award, whereupon some other
> friends of Ginny's approached her with the idea, and she graciously
> agreed to allow it to become reality. It was not initiated at her
> request. I think the SF community owes Yoji quite a debt of gratitude.
> Without him, there would have been no Heinlein Award, and there would
> have been no Heinlein Crater on Mars.
> JimC
>
> David M. Silver wrote:
> >
> > Last summer, at Virginia Heinlein's request, Dr, Yoji Kondo (also known
> > as science fiction author Eric Kotani), announced through Locus
> > Magazine institution of The Heinlein Award to recognize and reward
> > outstanding published works in science fiction and technical writings
> > that inspire the human exploration of space, since that is part of the
> > legacy of author Robert A. Heinlein.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22394
From: Robert A. Woodward"
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 21:02:51 -0700
Subject: Re: Interesting NYT Article
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
In article <3E9EDD1E.4060901@planet-save.com>,
SpaceCadet <cadozo@planet-save.com> wrote:
> Today's New York Times has an interesting article entitled
> "Sci-Fi Shrine for Seattle, Complete With Aliens" about a
> guy named Paul G. Allen who "is planning to build a
> "cultural project" in Seattle that will seek to draw
> visitors into the science-fiction experience."
>
This is the Paul Allen who was the co-founder of Microsoft (and whose
fortune is over 10^10 dollars).
<snip>
--
Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com>
<http://www.drizzle.com/~robertaw
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22395
From: pixelmeow
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 16:34:26 -0400
Subject: New forum on pixelmeow.com
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Filly contacted me with a question, and it sparked off a new forum. I
have just created a Writer's Workshop forum at my website, where any
of you who feel the urge to write can come and post your scribblings,
and others can critique. One thing I'd like to do from the outset is
get together some idea of how you (who would be using this forum)
would like to see it set up. Under Writer's Workshop on the Forums
page, there's a forum called Forum Suggestions. Any suggestions you
have can go there, talk it out, and whatever you all agree to is how
we'll do it.
As I'm not a writer, I won't dare tell you who are how to do your
work... ;-)
--
~teresa~
AFH Barwench
^..^ "Never try to outstubborn a cat." Robert A. Heinlein ^..^
http://pixelmeow.com/ http://www.heinleinsociety.org/
http://pixelmeow.com/Book_Exchange/index.htm
http://pixelmeow.com/forum/
aim: pixelmeow msn: pixelmeow@passport.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22396
From: Filksinger"
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 21:36:09 -0700
Subject: Privately Funded Space Vehicle Completed
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
They claim it is complete, and are now running the test flights. Apparently,
they've deliberately kept their progress secret.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/902224.asp?0ql=c9p&cp1=1
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22397
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 01:39:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Privately Funded Space Vehicle Completed
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Within weeks is when I hear they will be doing tests of the combined
vehicle, but no word on when an actual 54-mile high space test will occur.
It is clearly the coolest looking spacecraft to come along in a long time!
WJaKe
"Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message
news:3ea4c6bc.0@news.sff.net...
> They claim it is complete, and are now running the test flights.
Apparently,
> they've deliberately kept their progress secret.
>
> http://www.msnbc.com/news/902224.asp?0ql=c9p&cp1=1
>
>
> --
> Filksinger
> AKA David Nasset, Sr.
> Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22398
From: David Wright"
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 14:23:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Privately Funded Space Vehicle Completed
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message
news:3ea4c6bc.0@news.sff.net...
> They claim it is complete, and are now running the test flights.
Apparently,
> they've deliberately kept their progress secret.
>
> http://www.msnbc.com/news/902224.asp?0ql=c9p&cp1=1
>
While I give Rutan credit for an incredible achievement, I am a little
disappointed. Unless, I missed it, this is strictly a sub-orbital craft and
while technically, it may be considered a 'spaceship', I want to know when
or how it is going to get to the next step and become a truly orbital
vehicle and how will it handle the problems of re-entry from orbital speeds.
The emphasis here seemed to be on how high it could fly, not how fast.
--
David Wright
http://www.alltel.net/~dwrighsr/index.html
http://heinleinsociety.org
Help us prepare for the upcoming Centennial of the birthday of Robert A.
Heinlein
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Article 22399
From: Filksinger"
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 14:24:12 -0700
Subject: Re: Privately Funded Space Vehicle Completed
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
David Wright wrote:
<snip>
> While I give Rutan credit for an incredible achievement, I am a little
> disappointed.
<snip>
I understand the disappointment, believe me. Unfortunately, the costs of
building an orbital vehicle are much higher, and nobody with the funds is
willing to pay for it.
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
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Article 22400
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 22:41:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Privately Funded Space Vehicle Completed
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
FS:
I am waiting for an Antonov sized (1,330,000 LB) or larger
aircraft to launch a 'spacecraft' from 40,000 ft altitude. I
believe that Lockheed-Martin just proposed the idea.
Ed J
On Tue, 22 Apr 2003 14:24:12 -0700, "Filksinger"
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:
>David Wright wrote:
><snip>
>> While I give Rutan credit for an incredible achievement, I am a little
>> disappointed.
><snip>
>I understand the disappointment, believe me. Unfortunately, the costs of
>building an orbital vehicle are much higher, and nobody with the funds is
>willing to pay for it.
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Article 22401
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 01:06:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Privately Funded Space Vehicle Completed
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"David Wright" <dwrighsr@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:3ea588b6.0@news.sff.net...
>
> "Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message
> news:3ea4c6bc.0@news.sff.net...
> > They claim it is complete, and are now running the test flights.
> Apparently,
> > they've deliberately kept their progress secret.
> >
> > http://www.msnbc.com/news/902224.asp?0ql=c9p&cp1=1
> >
>
> While I give Rutan credit for an incredible achievement, I am a little
> disappointed. Unless, I missed it, this is strictly a sub-orbital craft
and
> while technically, it may be considered a 'spaceship',
David;
Remember that we are really looking at a purpose-built vehicle. The purpose:
Win the X-Prize. Rutan's previous craft have been built to accomplish a
goal, and have succeeded quite well. If they can do what they plan, I
applaud Rutan and his crew, and encourage them to continue. This gang may be
the best and brightest in the aerospace industry at the moment.
WJaKe
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Article 22402
From: James R. Cunningham"
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 12:02:46 -0700
Subject: Re: Privately Funded Space Vehicle Completed
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
As you mention, Rutan focuses on mission oriented craft and has a 100%
success rate in achieving his goals. Actually, the word has been out
for some time that they were working on this. The only other company in
the aerospace field that I have as much admiration for is Paul
MacCready's inovative company, Aerovironment. As an aside, I think Paul
may well be the best aeronautical engineer active today. And he's a
super nice guy too.
JimC
William J. Keaton wrote:
> Remember that we are really looking at a purpose-built vehicle. The purpose:
> Win the X-Prize. Rutan's previous craft have been built to accomplish a
> goal, and have succeeded quite well. If they can do what they plan, I
> applaud Rutan and his crew, and encourage them to continue. This gang may be
> the best and brightest in the aerospace industry at the moment.
>
> WJaKe
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Article 22403
From: James R. Cunningham"