SFF Net Newsgroup Archive
sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Index of Articles for this Newsgroup

 [3-2503]    [2504-3255]    [3256-3756]    [3757-4956]    [4957-5560]    [5561-6211]    [6212-6540]   
 [6541-6821]    [6822-7179]    [7180-7403]    [7404-7884]    [7885-8133]    [8134-8404]    [8405-8634]   
 [8635-8704]    [8705-9004]    [9005-9434]    [9435-9687]    [9688-9766]    [9767-10157]    [10159-10298]   
 [10299-10451]    [10452-10801]    [10802-11023]    [11024-11316]    [11317-11554]    [11555-11772]    [11773-12112]   
 [12113-12294]    [12295-12386]    [12387-12459]    [12460-12540]    [12541-12597]    [12598-12751]    [12752-12789]   
 [12791-13027]    [13028-13277]    [13278-13413]    [13414-13571]    [13572-13579]    [13581-13621]    [13623-14127]   
 [14128-14563]    [14564-14947]    [14948-15129]    [15130-15187]    [15188-15294]    [15295-15642]    [15643-15840]   
 [15841-16230]    [16231-16608]    [16609-16645]    [16647-17506]    [17507-18252]    [18253-18468]    [18469-18614]   
 [18615-18889]    [18890-19019]    [19020-19147]    [19020-19413]    [19414-19417]    [19418-19454]    [19456-20203]   
 [20204-20236]    [20238-20581]    [20582-20675]    [20676-20691]    [20692-20729]    [20730-20781]    [20782-20877]   
 [20878-20929]    [20930-21011]    [21012-21035]    [21036-21058]    [21059-21086]    [21087-21106]    [21107-21118]   
 [21119-21137]    [21138-21281]    [21282-21374]    [21375-21486]    [21487-21558]    [21559-21587]    [21588-21634]   
 [21635-21692]    [21693-21713]    [21714-21739]    [21740-21784]    [21785-21811]    [21812-21834]    [21835-21897]   
 [21898-21920]    [21921-21950]    [21951-21981]    [21982-21988]    [21989-22009]    [22010-22029]    [22030-22044]   
 [22045-22049]    [22050-22086]    [22087-22492]    [22493-22536]    [22537-22574]    [22575-22595]    [22596-22618]   
 [22619-22657]    [22658-22708]    [22709-22759]    [22760-22779]    [22780-22809]    [22810-22863]    [22864-23010]   
 [23011-23067]    [23068-23083]    [23084-23109]    [23110-23127]    [23128-23138]    [23139-23172]    [23173-23247]   
 [23248-23298]    [23299-23312]    [23313-23352]    [23353-23432]    [23433-23451]    [23452-23463]    [23464-23476]   
 [23477-23490]    [23491-23511]    [23512-23525]    [23526-23578]    [23579-23583]    [23584-23608]    [23609-23637]   
 [23638-23648]    [23649-23673]    [23674-23830]    [23831-23856]    [23857-23871]    [23872-23890]    [23891-23907]   
 [23908-24156]    [24157-24194]    [24195-24228]    [24229-24241]    [24242-24252]    [24253-24288]    [24289-24347]   
 [24348-24378]    [5791-5791]   


http://www.sff.net/



Archive of:   sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Archive desc: The Internet home for the Heinlein Forum
Archived by:  webnews@sff.net
Archive date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 10:25:01
============================================================

Article 23831
From: RPostelnek" 
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 22:05:39 -0500
Subject: Test
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Hi All
This is a test to see if my computer is getting the forum, it wasn't for a
couple of days.  Could someone please reply so I know if its working.

Thanks

Rosi



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23832
From: John Paul Vrolyk 
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 20:30:44 -0700
Subject: Re: Test
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

RPostelnek wrote:
> This is a test to see if my computer is getting the forum, it wasn't for a
> couple of days.  Could someone please reply so I know if its working.

Everybody's been very quiet for quite a few days,
but I think everything is working okay.

-- 
John Paul Vrolyk
jp@vrolyk.org

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23833
From: William J. Keaton" 
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 01:14:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Test
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Yeah, we've been quiet lately.

WJaKe


"RPostelnek" <rpostelnek@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:41105289.0@news.sff.net...
> Hi All
> This is a test to see if my computer is getting the forum, it wasn't for a
> couple of days.  Could someone please reply so I know if its working.
>
> Thanks
>
> Rosi
>
>



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23834
From: John Paul Vrolyk 
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 07:09:14 -0700
Subject: Announcement, etc..
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Things have been too quiet.

Well, I for one have an exciting announcement to make:
I have applied for US citizenship!

In possibly is little as six months, but more likely
around a year, I'll be renouncing all my former allegiances
(so long, Canada!) and registering to vote.  Cool, huh?

Meanwhile, back on the home front, little Virginia Vrolyk
is more than a year old, walking, and learning to talk,
and getting bullied by her big brother Jack, 3.

We moved recently, so if anyone needs updated contact
information, it's on my webpage in the usual place.
This was just a move of a few miles, to a cheaper place,
but Les & I are also in a drawn-out process of figuring
out how to leave the west coast behind and return to
the Commonwealth of Virginia.

Hmm...well, I probably get a few congratulations, etc., on
all that, but I don't think that was really enough to stir
up discussion.  Let me try some more:

So, how about that there presidential election?  Who you
going to vote for?  Badnarik, Bush, Cobb, Kerry, Nader,
Peroutka, or one of the really minor candidates?

Personally, I think Bush sucks, and his main redeeming
quality is a comparative one:  Kerry sucks worse.

I've heard rumors that Badnarik is far more of a whacko
than a typical Libertarian Party candidate, and only won
the nomination because people didn't know much about him
and the top two candidates hated each other more than they
did him.

Oh, and is anyone planning to buy anything cool on or after
September 14?

-- 
John Paul Vrolyk
jp@vrolyk.org

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23835
From: Jeffry Dwight 
Date: 4 Aug 2004 14:21:02 GMT
Subject: Re: Announcement, etc..
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Congrats, JP!

- j.

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23836
From: postmaster@sff.net
Date: 28 Jul 2004 15:25:03 GMT
Subject: No articles presently in newsgroup.
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

This newsgroup has no articles yet; however, if
you were to post something, it would.

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23837
From: webnews@sff.net
Date: 4 Aug 2004 17:35:09 GMT
Subject: SpamGuard
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

One or more articles in this newsgroup have been cancelled by the sysops
for being spammed across multiple newsgroups, being commercial adverts,
or for violating SFF Net's Policies and Procedures.

To avoid seeing this notice in the future, set your newsreader to filter
out articles with SpamGuard in the subject.

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23838
From: Lorrita Morgan" 
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 14:07:56 -0700
Subject: Re: Test
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

I was beginning to wonder if everyone was on vacation in the 1950's (or
earlier.)

-- 
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=

`rita
Why can't databases be totally compatible?
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"RPostelnek" <rpostelnek@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:41105289.0@news.sff.net...
> Hi All
> This is a test to see if my computer is getting the forum, it wasn't for a
> couple of days.  Could someone please reply so I know if its working.
>
> Thanks
>
> Rosi
>
>



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23839
From: Lorrita Morgan" 
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 14:14:39 -0700
Subject: Re: Announcement, etc..
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Now you can really complain!  And you won't have to fear Leno if he does a
Jaywalking on civics again.

I'm voting for some third party, again.  NOT Nader or LP this time.  Haven't
voted for GOP or Dem since Mondale-Ferraro.  Usually vote LP but they ticked
me off over 9/11 and other issues.  Want to vote for "None of the Above"
but...

-- 
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=

`rita
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"John Paul Vrolyk" <jp@vrolyk.org> wrote in message
news:4110EE0A.73F10C75@vrolyk.org...
> Things have been too quiet.
>
> Well, I for one have an exciting announcement to make:
> I have applied for US citizenship!
>
> In possibly is little as six months, but more likely
> around a year, I'll be renouncing all my former allegiances
> (so long, Canada!) and registering to vote.  Cool, huh?
>
> Meanwhile, back on the home front, little Virginia Vrolyk
> is more than a year old, walking, and learning to talk,
> and getting bullied by her big brother Jack, 3.
>
> We moved recently, so if anyone needs updated contact
> information, it's on my webpage in the usual place.
> This was just a move of a few miles, to a cheaper place,
> but Les & I are also in a drawn-out process of figuring
> out how to leave the west coast behind and return to
> the Commonwealth of Virginia.
>
> Hmm...well, I probably get a few congratulations, etc., on
> all that, but I don't think that was really enough to stir
> up discussion.  Let me try some more:
>
> So, how about that there presidential election?  Who you
> going to vote for?  Badnarik, Bush, Cobb, Kerry, Nader,
> Peroutka, or one of the really minor candidates?
>
> Personally, I think Bush sucks, and his main redeeming
> quality is a comparative one:  Kerry sucks worse.
>
> I've heard rumors that Badnarik is far more of a whacko
> than a typical Libertarian Party candidate, and only won
> the nomination because people didn't know much about him
> and the top two candidates hated each other more than they
> did him.
>
> Oh, and is anyone planning to buy anything cool on or after
> September 14?
>
> -- 
> John Paul Vrolyk
> jp@vrolyk.org
>



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23840
From: Eli Hestermann 
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 18:37:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Announcement, etc..
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

A hearty prospective welcome to a new American!

As far as the Presidential election, I agree but for turning your 
formula around: Bush sucks worse than Kerry. And I've voted for the 
Republican candidate in every election since I was of age. Of course, 
Kerry could still do something between now and November to change my 
opinion (I doubt Bush could).

I'm reminded of a wonderful thing Debra Doyle wrote just before the 2000 
election, "It's like you really want a Dr. Pepper, but all they have is 
Diet Pepsi and Diet Coke." OWTTE

-- 
Eli V. Hestermann
ehestermann@charter.net
"Vita brevis est, ars longa" - Seneca


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23841
From: Charles Graft 
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 18:46:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Announcement, etc..
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

JohnPaul --

     I agree with your assessment of the major parties.  What Kerry
could do in office scares me deeply.  I'll stay with the Libertarians,
though.  I think their answer on Iraq is both simplistic and based on
"what if"  having done things differently in the past.  But our actions
outside the country is NOT what makes us a target; it is the fact that
we are the major nation of heretics and blasphemers.  A religious war is
in the offing.  We can either surrender or fight.

     We have not had a good president since Reagan.  And our liberties
are eroding each day.

--
<<Big Charlie>>

"Seen on the door to a light-wave lab: 'Do not look into laser with
remaining good eye.'"



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23842
From: JT 
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 21:05:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Announcement, etc..
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 07:09:14 -0700, John Paul Vrolyk <jp@vrolyk.org>
wrote:

>Things have been too quiet.

Yeah, I just haven't had anything to stir up here either. ;)

>Well, I for one have an exciting announcement to make:
>I have applied for US citizenship!

Wonderful news.  

>
>Meanwhile, back on the home front, little Virginia Vrolyk
>is more than a year old, walking, and learning to talk,
>and getting bullied by her big brother Jack, 3.

I still haven't had the pleasure of meeting Ginny and it's been that
long since I've seen Jack.  But I kinda know what you're going
through..... David turned two today, and Daniel turns four in a few
weeks.

>So, how about that there presidential election?  Who you
>going to vote for?  Badnarik, Bush, Cobb, Kerry, Nader,
>Peroutka, or one of the really minor candidates?

You're being nice to the LP & Constitution, parties.  They are already
really minor in comparison to the republicrats.  That said, I've
already given Badnarik money and reregistered as a Libertarian in
Maryland, where the party was recently recertified officially.  I
don't find Badnarik to be overly whacko, some of his quotes are a
little colorful.

I support the Libertarians because the compromises they will have to
make on their platform when they are elected will still result in a
government that's at least 200% better than the current one even if
they only enact 50% of their platform. ;)

I don't buy the 'wasted vote' syndrome.  My state is going to Kerry
anyway, so why should all those Republicans here vote for Bush?  Until
the minor parties get real coverage in the media there's no real hope
for serious change anyway....
>
>Oh, and is anyone planning to buy anything cool on or after
>September 14?

I'll admit it, I don't really know the significance of the date.
Unless that's when the first Star Wars trilogy is out on DVD, because
I'm sure as heck going to be buying that.  I thought it was the 21st
though....just checked, Amazon says the 21st.

JT


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23843
From: JT 
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 21:15:04 -0400
Subject: Good News from JT
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Since JP was sharing a good news update from the Vrolyk family, I
thought I'd let you all know one of the reasons I haven't been posting
much.  At the end of July, I was elected to the Grand Council of Alpha
Sigma Phi fraternity.

The Grand Council is the Board of Directors of the fraternity,
ultimately responsible for the 68 active college groups across the
country.  I was elected by the undergraduates after a fairly long
nominations process where there were actually more nominated than
positions open, so my election was not a sure thing.

Some of you know that I worked very hard as an undergraduate to
establish a chapter of Alpha Sigma Phi at my university, and to be
elected to its national governing body is very special to me.

The other good part about my new position is that is that I will be
out in Carmel, IN (the national headquarters) a LOT more over the next
few years.  That should make seeing friends a little easier. ;)

JT

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23844
From: Ed Johnson 
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 21:47:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Announcement, etc..
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

  What he said.  <g>


Ed J

On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 18:46:01 -0500, Charles Graft
<chasgraft@aol.com> wrote:

>JohnPaul --
>
>     I agree with your assessment of the major parties.  What Kerry
>could do in office scares me deeply.  I'll stay with the Libertarians,
>though.  I think their answer on Iraq is both simplistic and based on
>"what if"  having done things differently in the past.  But our actions
>outside the country is NOT what makes us a target; it is the fact that
>we are the major nation of heretics and blasphemers.  A religious war is
>in the offing.  We can either surrender or fight.
>
>     We have not had a good president since Reagan.  And our liberties
>are eroding each day.


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23845
From: Ed Johnson 
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 21:50:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Good News from JT
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

JT:   Congratulations on your election to the fraternity council.
I sounds like you earned it the old fashioned way - through lots of
hard work.

Ed J


On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 21:15:04 -0400, JT <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote:

>Since JP was sharing a good news update from the Vrolyk family, I
>thought I'd let you all know one of the reasons I haven't been posting
>much.  At the end of July, I was elected to the Grand Council of Alpha
>Sigma Phi fraternity.
>
>The Grand Council is the Board of Directors of the fraternity,
>ultimately responsible for the 68 active college groups across the
>country.  I was elected by the undergraduates after a fairly long
>nominations process where there were actually more nominated than
>positions open, so my election was not a sure thing.
>
>Some of you know that I worked very hard as an undergraduate to
>establish a chapter of Alpha Sigma Phi at my university, and to be
>elected to its national governing body is very special to me.
>
>The other good part about my new position is that is that I will be
>out in Carmel, IN (the national headquarters) a LOT more over the next
>few years.  That should make seeing friends a little easier. ;)
>
>JT


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23846
From: Catherine Hampton 
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 19:36:33 -0700
Subject: Re: Announcement, etc..
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 07:09:14 -0700, John Paul Vrolyk <jp@vrolyk.org>
wrote:

>Well, I for one have an exciting announcement to make:
>I have applied for US citizenship!

Welcome to the madhouse. ;-)


--
Ariel (aka Catherine Hampton) <ariel@tempest.boxmail.com>
===========================================================
Home Page               *         <http://www.devsite.org/>
Human Rights Web        *           <http://www.hrweb.org/>
The SpamBouncer         *     <http://www.spambouncer.org/>

(Please use this address for replies -- the address in my header is a
spam trap.)

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23847
From: RPostelnek" 
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 22:19:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Announcement, etc..
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


"John Paul Vrolyk" <jp@vrolyk.org> wrote in message
news:4110EE0A.73F10C75@vrolyk.org...
>

> > I have applied for US citizenship!
>
  Congrats JP!
e:
>
> So, how about that there presidential election?  Who you
> going to vote for?

Kerry,  I think Bush is the worst of the two.  Since I live in Texas it
might not matter.  But the state Republicans  gerrymandered my Congressional
District and it will be a while before I'll vote for a Republican in a state
election or national.

What is happening on the 24th?

Rosie



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23848
From: John Paul Vrolyk 
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 09:08:27 -0700
Subject: Re: Announcement, etc..
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

JT wrote:
> >So, how about that there presidential election?  Who you
> >going to vote for?  Badnarik, Bush, Cobb, Kerry, Nader,
> >Peroutka, or one of the really minor candidates?
> 
> You're being nice to the LP & Constitution, parties.  They are already
> really minor in comparison to the republicrats.

Libertarians, Constitution, Green, & Nader/Reform will each
be on the ballot of most states.  They're all minor
candidates, but my definition of the *really* minor
candidates covers those who will only be on the ballot
in a few states or even just one state.

For example, in 1996, there were 21 candidates on the ballot
in at least one state each, but only 6 of the 21 were on
most ballots.  See:
http://web.archive.org/web/20021224072751/www.ballot-access.org/1996/status.html

> >Oh, and is anyone planning to buy anything cool on or after
> >September 14?
> 
> I'll admit it, I don't really know the significance of the date.

http://www.awbansunset.com/

Certain firearms with particular cosmetic and ergonomic
features, but otherwise identical in operation, power, etc.,
to other unaffected firearms, will once again be legal to
manufacture and sell to civilians.

I've been considering taking up hunting, and might well want
a deer rifle with handy (but currently banned) cosmetic
features like a folding stock, pistol grip or flash hider.

-- 
John Paul Vrolyk
jp@vrolyk.org

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23849
From: debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek Rule)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 18:29:38 GMT
Subject: Star Wars DVDs.
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


>Unless that's when the first Star Wars trilogy is out on DVD, because
>I'm sure as heck going to be buying that.  

  Yuck! Bleck. Pha!

  The adulterated, contaminated, revisionist isn't-really-Star-Wars
versions. 

  I'm boycotting them. Them and their soft, fuzzy, neutered Han Solo.


Deb Houdek Rule
http://www.dahoudek.com
http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
http://www.heinleinsociety.org
http://www.heinleinprize.com

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23850
From: debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek Rule)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 18:29:38 GMT
Subject: Re: Announcement, etc..
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

  Congrats, JP! 

  I'm sticking with the straight anarchist ticket--which translates to
whichever vote choice I think could cause the most political
entertainment value (like the Davis recall/Schwarzenegger election
here in CA--had the virtues of being both entertaining and disruptive
of the norm). I've never voted for a winning presidential candidate
yet so I feel safe in the my-vote-doesn't-really-count factor. 

Deb Houdek Rule
http://www.dahoudek.com
http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
http://www.heinleinsociety.org
http://www.heinleinprize.com

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23851
From: JT 
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 14:17:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Star Wars DVDs.
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 18:29:38 GMT, debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek
Rule) wrote:

>
>>Unless that's when the first Star Wars trilogy is out on DVD, because
>>I'm sure as heck going to be buying that.  
>
>  Yuck! Bleck. Pha!
>
>  The adulterated, contaminated, revisionist isn't-really-Star-Wars
>versions. 
>
>  I'm boycotting them. Them and their soft, fuzzy, neutered Han Solo.
>

It is a shame that they don't also contain the "non-special-edition"
originally released movies, but I'm not doing the marketing at Fox....
;)

JT

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23852
From: debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek Rule)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 20:42:54 GMT
Subject: Re: Star Wars DVDs.
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


> at Fox....

   Yeah, these are the same geniuses who canned "Firefly".

   As I hear it, however, it's George Lucas's decision not to release
the *real* versions on DVD.


Deb Houdek Rule
http://www.dahoudek.com
http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
http://www.heinleinsociety.org
http://www.heinleinprize.com

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23853
From: JT 
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 19:36:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Star Wars DVDs.
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On Sun, 08 Aug 2004 20:42:54 GMT, debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek
Rule) wrote:

>   As I hear it, however, it's George Lucas's decision not to release
>the *real* versions on DVD.
>
I dunno, Deb, I think I've gotta say that the 'real' version is what
the director wants.  Look at all the different Lord of the Rings
releases.  The ones out on DVD now, by and large, are not the ones
that were in the theatres.

The interviews  I've seen say that the "Special Editions" are what
Lucas would have done if he could have gotten the effects shots he
wanted back in the 70s/80s.  I know there are other edits and that's
what's really irking you, but still, "real" is a loaded term when the
director was intimately involved in their release.

It doesn't get to me as much because I don't remember every detail of
the movies. Of most movies. ;)

JT



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23854
From: Filksinger" 
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 20:21:29 -0700
Subject: Re: Star Wars DVDs.
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

JT wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Aug 2004 20:42:54 GMT, debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek
> Rule) wrote:
>
>>   As I hear it, however, it's George Lucas's decision not to release
>> the *real* versions on DVD.
>>
> I dunno, Deb, I think I've gotta say that the 'real' version is what
> the director wants.  Look at all the different Lord of the Rings
> releases.  The ones out on DVD now, by and large, are not the ones
> that were in the theatres.
>
> The interviews  I've seen say that the "Special Editions" are what
> Lucas would have done if he could have gotten the effects shots he
> wanted back in the 70s/80s.  I know there are other edits and that's
> what's really irking you, but still, "real" is a loaded term when the
> director was intimately involved in their release.

I agree, about the changes that were just trying to express the vision
better.

I firmly disagree about the change in the scene with Greedo. Here what we
are talking about is revisionism, not issues of authenticity to a vision.
Adding the scene with Jabba the Hut, or changing the special effects, are
one thing. Taking a scene and fundamentally changing it, that is quite
another. Taking a _character_ and fundamentally changing him, and in the
process fundamentally changing a major storyline, is far worse.

All in all, I have no major objections to the other changes, even the
meeting with Jabba and Han (I'd prefer having _both_ versions, though). I
do, however, object strenuously to the change in the scene with Han and
Greedo.

First, it was a lousy decision from the directorial standpoint. Greedo is a
professional bounty hunter who can't hit a sitting target at three feet?!?
If he's really as bad as Lucas indicated, Han shouldn't have shot him, he
should have gotten up and walked rapidly away. He'd have been perfectly
safe.

Second, and more important, is that it fundamentally changed the character
of Han Solo, and, as a result, fundamentally changed a major storyline of
the first movie.

In the original, Han was a rough character, a criminal who would shoot
people because they _might_ shoot him, at best. It was, in fact, even
implied that Greedo was only taking Han to Jabba, not there to kill him. The
addition of the line, "Why did you shoot poor Greedo?", only reinforces this
impression. Han Solo was _not_ a "good guy". He was, at best, an anti-hero.

In the new release, Han didn't shoot Greedo until after Greedo had shot
first, and, in fact, was rather slow considering he had his gun ready. He
not only didn't shoot first, he shot reluctantly. He was no longer a dark
anti-hero character, he was a rogue who was secretly a hero, at heart.

In the first release, the story of Star Wars: A New Hope was, in large part,
the story of the redemption of Han Solo. In the second, he's just a
reluctant hero who shows his true colors in the end, no real redemption
required.

-- 
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23855
From: Filksinger" 
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 00:59:47 -0700
Subject: Re: Announcement, etc..
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Congratulations! Welcome to the madhouse.:)


-- 
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23856
From: Filksinger" 
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 01:00:42 -0700
Subject: Re: Good News from JT
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Congratulations! Hope you enjoy your new position!


-- 
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined



------------------------------------------------------------

============================================================
Archive of:   sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Archive desc: The Internet home for the Heinlein Forum
Archived by:  webnews@sff.net
Archive date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 10:25:01
First article in this archive:  23831
Last article in this archive:   23856
Oldest article in this archive: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 22:05:39 -0500
Newest article in this archive: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 08:55:11 -0700