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Archive of:   sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Archive desc: The Internet home for the Heinlein Forum
Archived by:  webnews@sff.net
Archive date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 15:14:12
============================================================

Article 23011
From: Filksinger" 
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 00:34:40 -0700
Subject: Mseesd Up Elingsh
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't
mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny
iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer is at the
rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll
raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey
lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe. Qiute ture I thnik.



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23012
From: fader55@delete.sbcglobal.net (Fader)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 08:22:42 GMT
Subject: Re: Roll Call Sept 2003
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:05:06 GMT, les@vrolyk.org (Les Vrolyk) wrote:

>We'll be there!  We should be out of this god-forsaken waste land by
>then and back on the east coast.  (A girl can dream can't she?)
>Meatballs.....yummy!
>
Great

So, I can count you guys as the first to sign on for the Fader's
Fiftieth Celebratory HF Bash (a gathering with a kick, BAM) <BG>

Fader


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23013
From: fader55@delete.sbcglobal.net (Fader)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 08:25:42 GMT
Subject: Re: Mseesd Up Elingsh
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 00:34:40 -0700, "Filksinger"
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:

>Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't
>mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny
>iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer is at the
>rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll
>raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey
>lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe. Qiute ture I thnik.
>
vrey itenrsetnig,

fdaer


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23014
From: David Wright" 
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:31:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Mseesd Up Elingsh
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


Filksinger <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message
news:3f77e097.0@news.sff.net...
> Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't
> mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny
> iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer is at the
> rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll
> raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey
> lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe. Qiute ture I thnik.
>
cnxteot of the wrod mekas a lot of deeriffnce. I wluod tinhk.

--
Dviad Wghirt

Join us at the next Heinlein Readers Group,Thursday October 23  at 9:00 P.M.
EDT
Topic is "Time Travel vs Free Will - Is there really a conflict?"
Join the pre-discussion thread on alt.fan.heinlein
See http://heinleinsociety.org/readersgroup/index.html#Info for instructions




------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23015
From: debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek Rule)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 18:55:35 GMT
Subject: Heinlein Award winner Michael Flynn
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


  Has anyone read any books by the winner of the Heinlein Award, hard
sf author Michael Flynn? 

  I have to (somewhat shamedly) confess I hadn't heard of him before
the award--I haven't read much new sf in the recent ten or fifteen
years; didn't like the trends in it. But when Michael Flynn won the
Heinlein Award I promptly got one of his books, "Firestar". I haven't
even finished it yet but am completely engrossed--it's a darned fine
book. I can see shades of Heinlein and other good hard sf authors,
without it being a 'copy' or 'image' of any of them. It's good sf with
solid, intriguing characters and a story line that has me anxious to
keep on to the ending. It's a long book, over 800 pages, and is taking
its time in presenting the story, but it isn't dragging at all, it is
moving along at a good and interesting pace. And the book's theme of
our future in space, and commercial space exploration, makes Michael
Flynn an excellent choice for the Heinlein Award--I can certainly see
why his works were chosen for the first Award. I am really looking
forward to reading all of Michael Flynn's books. 

  If anyone has read, and enjoyed, Michael Flynn's books and would
like to write reviews of them for the Heinlein Society website, I'd
like to hear from you (positive reviews). Even descriptive articles of
the books with no review/editorial comments, if you like, would be
welcome. 

  There's a brief article about the Heinlein Award presentation and
Michael Flynn receiving the Award on the Heinlein Society website at: 
http://www.heinleinsociety.org/news/newsTHSawards.html
  I'm working on a longer webpage about it with more pictures and
quotations from the presentation--hope to have that up by the end of
the week. I'd like to make the Heinlein Award and info about the
winner a major subsection of the website. The Heinlein Award is/will
be as significant as the Campbell Award and _soon_ as significant as
the Hugos. 

  Deb
  http://www.heinleinsociety.org
  http://www.heinleinprize.com
  http://www.robertaheinlein.com
  http://www.dahoudek.com
  http://www.civilwarstlouis.com


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23016
From: Charles Graft 
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 14:16:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Terrorism ??
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Fader--
     This is, unfortunately inevitable.  RICO was passed by saying it
was only a weapon against the Mafia.  Seizure was supposed to be used
only in drug lord cases.  Only the very rich will ever pay an income
tax.

    The problem is not Ashcroft.  It is out of control government.
Maybe the purpose is to convince people that if you can get rid of
Ashcroft, the problem will go away.   Not a chance.  By focusing on one
individual, you deflect the opposition into ineffective channels.

--
<<Big Charlie>>

"Seen on the door to a light-wave lab: 'Do not look into laser with
remaining good eye.'"



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23017
From: debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek Rule)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:20:00 GMT
Subject: Re: Heinlein Award winner Michael Flynn
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

>  Has anyone read any books by the winner of the Heinlein Award, hard
>sf author Michael Flynn? 

  Here's a bit from "Firestar," part of a poem written by a character
who's an alcoholic, moody, troubled dressed-all-in-black teenaged
girl:

  "Your generation never grew up;
  Ours has grown up all too soon.
  Our generation scrabbles and grubs;
  Yours abandoned the moon."

  and the explanation of the poem:

  "...the ultimate spoiled child, which is what most of that
generation is... To 'promise the moon' means you would do anything. So
here their parents actually _deliver_ on the promise and they just
turn their noses up at it."  (from "Firestar" by Michael Flynn)

  "Yours abandoned the moon" really struck me. 

  Deb

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23018
From: Ed Johnson 
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:54:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Heinlein Award winner Michael Flynn
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Deb: 
>  "Yours abandoned the moon" really struck me. 
  That one line made me think of the final action in "Lucifer's
Hammer".  They didn't give up.  (It wasn't the moon, but electric
power generation.)  
  As for the moon: If and when cheap access to space should occur,
it should drastically change the remainder of this century.  I hope
that I live to see us return to the moon and all that it promises.

Ed J


On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:20:00 GMT, debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek
Rule) wrote:

>
>  "Your generation never grew up;
>  Ours has grown up all too soon.
>  Our generation scrabbles and grubs;
>  Yours abandoned the moon."
>
>  and the explanation of the poem:
>
>  "...the ultimate spoiled child, which is what most of that
>generation is... To 'promise the moon' means you would do anything. So
>here their parents actually _deliver_ on the promise and they just
>turn their noses up at it."  (from "Firestar" by Michael Flynn)
>
>  "Yours abandoned the moon" really struck me. 
>
>  Deb


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23019
From: Filksinger" 
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:03:10 -0700
Subject: Re: Mseesd Up Elingsh
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

David Wright wrote:
> Filksinger <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message
> news:3f77e097.0@news.sff.net...
> > Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't
> > mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny
> > iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer is at the
> > rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll
> > raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey
> > lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe. Qiute ture I thnik.
> >
> cnxteot of the wrod mekas a lot of deeriffnce. I wluod tinhk.

Udotunely.

As wtiseensd by the fcat taht the avboe wrod is amlost lsot.

-- 
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23020
From: David M. Silver" 
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 00:40:05 -0700
Subject: Re: Mseesd Up Elingsh
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

In article <3f790084.0@news.sff.net>,
 "Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:

> David Wright wrote:
> > Filksinger <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message
> > news:3f77e097.0@news.sff.net...
> > > Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't
> > > mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny
> > > iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer is at the
> > > rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll
> > > raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey
> > > lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe. Qiute ture I thnik.
> > >
> > cnxteot of the wrod mekas a lot of deeriffnce. I wluod tinhk.
> 
> Udotunely.
> 
> As wtiseensd by the fcat taht the avboe wrod is amlost lsot.

Taht mghit be hte rsoean fsat raedres mkae poor porof rredeas.

-- 
David M. Silver www.heinleinsociety.org
"The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!"
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA '29, Lt.(jg), USN, R'td, 1907-88

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23021
From: fader55@delete.sbcglobal.net (Fader)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:49:27 GMT
Subject: Re: Terrorism ??
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 14:16:40 -0500, Charles Graft <chasgraft@aol.com>
wrote:


>     This is, unfortunately inevitable.  RICO was passed by saying it
>was only a weapon against the Mafia.  Seizure was supposed to be used
>only in drug lord cases.  Only the very rich will ever pay an income
>tax.
>
>    The problem is not Ashcroft.  It is out of control government.
>Maybe the purpose is to convince people that if you can get rid of
>Ashcroft, the problem will go away.   Not a chance.  By focusing on one
>individual, you deflect the opposition into ineffective channels.
>
I know the problem is government itself, it seems like a living thing,
expanding till it fills it's ecological niche. Unfortunetly, that's
our niche too.
 
Getting rid of Ashcroft or Bush or even all the people like them, will
not make the problem go away, but sometimes it could slow the
progression of this expansion. Has there ever been a government that
has turned out good in the end, one that hasn't either fallen from
inimical forces, or turned on it's own people. 

I'm not really sure there's an answer for this one, we need a
government that's strong enough to get the job done, but self-limiting
& without the authority to change the it's own internal rules. The
Founders didn't do too badly, but it'didn't have enough safeguards.

Fader

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23022
From: gerald-jonas@sff.net (Gerald Jonas)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 16:58:36 GMT
Subject: lost heinlein
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

has there been any discussion about the "new" heinlein novel?

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23023
From: JT 
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:23:44 -0400
Subject: Re: lost heinlein
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On 30 Sep 2003 16:58:36 GMT, gerald-jonas@sff.net (Gerald Jonas)
wrote:

>has there been any discussion about the "new" heinlein novel?

Well, I haven't read it yet, and I'm not too keen on any "spoilers"
until I do. :)

There was a thread here that has died out entitled "For Us, the
Living" from 7/21.  

I have a pre-ordered copy from Amazon (through the Heinlein Society,
naturally ;) so I expect to have it at my doorstep the day of release
or possibly earlier.

I promise not to spill any beans myself if I get it early. <EG>

JT


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23024
From: Robert Slater" 
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:12:19 -0700
Subject: Re: Mseesd Up Elingsh
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

> > Udotunely.

> > As wtiseensd by the fcat taht the avboe wrod is amlost lsot.

It's lsot on me, but taht culod be my plobrem.
SFII Rob



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23025
From: georule@civilwarstlouis.com
Date: 1 Oct 2003 02:34:06 GMT
Subject: Re: lost heinlein
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Gerald--

Are you after spoilers, or "where'd it come from"?  If the latter, check
out http://www.heinleinsociety.org/news/newsFUTL.html

If the former, most of us (I think) don't want to know until we can read
for ourselves.

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23026
From: georule@civilwarstlouis.com
Date: 1 Oct 2003 02:53:37 GMT
Subject: Heinlein Prize on space.com
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Midway down the front page on the left side, including graphic of medal
from the website. Article is actual write up too, not just excerpts from
the press release. Cool.

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23027
From: Filksinger" 
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 22:29:17 -0700
Subject: Tricking Fast Readers (was Re: Mseesd Up Elingsh)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

David M. Silver wrote:

<snip>
> Taht mghit be hte rsoean fsat raedres mkae poor porof rredeas.

Try this:    *
            * *
           *   *
          *     *
         * Paris *
        * in  the *
       *the spring *
      ***************

I have had good readers unable to read this one after repeated attempts.
What do you think it says? (Note: If you know what is going on, wait to see
if someone else comments.;)

-- 
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23028
From: gunner" 
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 03:22:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Tricking Fast Readers (was Re: Mseesd Up Elingsh)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

i've got it i think, but i'm going to wait and see who else does.
"gunner"
---------------------------
"Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message
news:3f7a665a.0@news.sff.net...
> David M. Silver wrote:
>
> <snip>
> > Taht mghit be hte rsoean fsat raedres mkae poor porof rredeas.
>
> Try this:    *
>             * *
>            *   *
>           *     *
>          * Paris *
>         * in  the *
>        *the spring *
>       ***************
>
> I have had good readers unable to read this one after repeated attempts.
> What do you think it says? (Note: If you know what is going on, wait to
see
> if someone else comments.;)
>
> --
> Filksinger
> AKA David Nasset, Sr.
> Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
>
>



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23029
From: David M. Silver" 
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 11:06:48 -0700
Subject: Re: Tricking Fast Readers (was Re: Mseesd Up Elingsh)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

In article <3f7a80c7.0@news.sff.net>, "gunner" <gunnera4@sover.net> 
wrote:

> i've got it i think, but i'm going to wait and see who else does.
> "gunner"
> ---------------------------
> "Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message
> news:3f7a665a.0@news.sff.net...
> > David M. Silver wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> > > Taht mghit be hte rsoean fsat raedres mkae poor porof rredeas.
> >
> > Try this:    *
> >             * *
> >            *   *
> >           *     *
> >          * Paris *
> >         * in  the *
> >        *the spring *
> >       ***************
> >
> > I have had good readers unable to read this one after repeated attempts.
> > What do you think it says? (Note: If you know what is going on, wait to
> see
> > if someone else comments.;)
> >
> > --
> > Filksinger
> > AKA David Nasset, Sr.
> > Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
> >
> >
> 
> 

I'm not sure I've got it; but I will note that the first time I read it 
I missed the glitch. Why does the fact that the asterisk is next to the 
repeated word affect the quick, first read? And what impact does the 
fact that most fast readers scan from top to bottom of a page rather 
than left to right have?

-- 
David M. Silver www.heinleinsociety.org
"The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!"
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA '29, Lt.(jg), USN, R'td, 1907-88

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23030
From: Jane Davitt 
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 15:13:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Tricking Fast Readers (was Re: Mseesd Up Elingsh)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Filksinger wrote:
> David M. Silver wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> 
>>Taht mghit be hte rsoean fsat raedres mkae poor porof rredeas.
> 
> 
> Try this:    *
>             * *
>            *   *
>           *     *
>          * Paris *
>         * in  the *
>        *the spring *
>       ***************
> 
> I have had good readers unable to read this one after repeated attempts.
> What do you think it says? (Note: If you know what is going on, wait to see
> if someone else comments.;)
> 
I'm a very fast reader but I'm pretty good at spotting mistakes/typos 
too, just to sound all braggy :-) I found this one right away. However 
the one where you count the number of 'e's or something beat me.

Jane

-- 
Read my Buffy the Vampire Slayer fiction at
http://members.rogers.com/jdavitt01/index.html
http://www.fanfiction.net/~Jane Davitt


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23031
From: David Wright" 
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 15:45:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Tricking Fast Readers (was Re: Mseesd Up Elingsh)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


"Jane Davitt" <jdavitt01@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:3f7b275d.0@news.sff.net...
> Filksinger wrote:
> > David M. Silver wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> >>Taht mghit be hte rsoean fsat raedres mkae poor porof rredeas.
> >
> >
> > Try this:    *
> >             * *
> >            *   *
> >           *     *
> >          * Paris *
> >         * in  the *
> >        *the spring *
> >       ***************
> >
> > I have had good readers unable to read this one after repeated attempts.
> > What do you think it says? (Note: If you know what is going on, wait to
see
> > if someone else comments.;)
> >
> I'm a very fast reader but I'm pretty good at spotting mistakes/typos
> too, just to sound all braggy :-) I found this one right away. However
> the one where you count the number of 'e's or something beat me.
>

I was totally misled by an unconscious assumption that I was supposed *read*
a message out of this rather than it being an exercise in proof reading. The
song about 'I love Paris in the Spring' kept coming to me.
-- 
David Wright

Join us at the next Heinlein Readers Group, Thursday October 23 at 9:00 P.M.
EDT
The topic will be 'Time Travel vs. Free Will - is there really a conflict?"

See http://heinleinsociety.org/readersgroup/index.html#Info for instructions
Go to top of that page for latest logs.



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23032
From: rkaderli@yahoo.com
Date: 1 Oct 2003 20:17:55 GMT
Subject: Stranger 1999
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Having read the unabridged (uncut) Stanger In A Strange Land multiple times
and having read the version that (Helen?) released about three years ago,
I think I see some of the edited changes.  Such as: I don't see bi-sexuality
addressed in the original pre-published one.  It seems to read more as a
lesson in objectivism but that could be my selective perception at this
date.
What changes do you see that the editor made to release it in (64?).

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23033
From: David M. Silver" 
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 13:32:44 -0700
Subject: Re: Stranger 1999
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

In article <3f7b3673.0@news.sff.net>, rkaderli@yahoo.com wrote:

> Having read the unabridged (uncut) Stanger In A Strange Land multiple times
> and having read the version that (Helen?) 

????? The 1961 edition has never been out of print. Mrs. Virginia 
Heinlein released the uncut version in 1991.

> released about three years ago,
> I think I see some of the edited changes.  Such as: I don't see bi-sexuality
> addressed in the original pre-published one.  It seems to read more as a
> lesson in objectivism but that could be my selective perception at this
> date.
> What changes do you see that the editor made to release it in (64?).

You might take a look at Geo Rule's assessment at

http://www.robertaheinlein.com/reviews/books/strangervsstranger.htm

-- 
David M. Silver www.heinleinsociety.org
"The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!"
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA '29, Lt.(jg), USN, R'td, 1907-88

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23034
From: Francesco Spreafico" 
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 23:18:50 +0200
Subject: Re: lost heinlein
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

JT wrote:

> I have a pre-ordered copy from Amazon (through the Heinlein Society,
> naturally ;) so I expect to have it at my doorstep the day of release
> or possibly earlier.

I just noticed that Amazon.com says it'll be out on January... I do hope
they just forgot to update that to the end of November!

Francesco
http://www.dimensionedelta.net



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23035
From: Ed Johnson 
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 21:39:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Tricking Fast Readers (was Re: Mseesd Up Elingsh)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

David:   It might by my age;  I too thought of' 'I love Paris in the
Spring Time' when I saw that typo.  Now the tune is running through
my head and I'm not even sure if it's the right tune one for that
title!

Ed J



On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 15:45:43 -0400, "David Wright"
<dwrighsr@alltel.net> wrote:


>
>I was totally misled by an unconscious assumption that I was supposed *read*
>a message out of this rather than it being an exercise in proof reading. The
>song about 'I love Paris in the Spring' kept coming to me.


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23036
From: William J. Keaton" 
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 01:51:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Roll Call Sept 2003
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Ok, so I'm a little late to the roll call. Blame it on trips to Toronto and
Phoenix, hurricanes, etc.

WJaKe
William J. Keaton

Turned (shudder) 40 this year!
Quite single, always looking. No significant others/pets/keepers/etc.

Occupied as a Supervisor of Studio Technicians at the Voice of America in
DC.

First HF: Have Space Suit Will Travel, age 10

Favorite HF: Varies wildly, depending on mood, attitude, phases of the moon,
etc. Moon is always high on the list.

Other SF authors: Spider Robinson, John Varley. Have a fondness for classic
SF, Asimov, vanVogt, Doc Smith, Clarke, etc.

Hobbies: Sailing, skiing, My beloved Green Bay Packers and Washington
Capitals. Messing around with old and new computer hardware, just to see
what works to do what. Space. Traveling. Music. Missing Buffy.

Politics: Generally conservative. Vote, but have become mostly uninterested
in political discussion. Depressing, isn't it?

Don't look for my web page, it stinks. Some day (days, weeks, months) there
will be a new one. With pictures. And stuff.

Anything else you want to know, just ask. I'll make something up!

WJaKe



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23037
From: David Wright" 
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 06:32:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Tricking Fast Readers (was Re: Mseesd Up Elingsh)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


Ed Johnson <eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote in message
news:da0nnvkmllbr7r0qeinp2eo1sdklr9r4ed@4ax.com...
> David:   It might by my age;  I too thought of' 'I love Paris in the
> Spring Time' when I saw that typo.  Now the tune is running through
> my head and I'm not even sure if it's the right tune one for that
> title!
>
Cole Porter, 1953 From "Can-Can."
--
David Wright

Join us at the next Heinlein Readers Group,Thursday October 23  at 9:00 P.M.
EDT
Topic is "Time Travel vs Free Will - Is there really a conflict?"
Join the pre-discussion thread on alt.fan.heinlein
See http://heinleinsociety.org/readersgroup/index.html#Info for instructions




------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23038
From: rkaderli@yahoo.com
Date: 2 Oct 2003 18:26:00 GMT
Subject: Re: Stranger 1999
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

David,
Thanks. That clears up some questions I had.
Here is my situation as I know it.  I oftener than not read novels checked
out of the library so when it comes to discussing them later I have no text
to which to refer back. The Berkley 54th printing I own is not the one I
traded into the book store that was possibly from the 70s and said "uncut"
on the cover, nor the original one I had that said "unabridged".  I reread
it when I got it from the library (I guess in 91) and remembered it as being
before the second millenium.  Not too bad, only off by 8 years.  Anyway,
seems like just the other day that I reread it. What about the point I make
about the change in sexual orientation or the voice being more objectivist
in the uncut? I can see how thie voice part could be true since along with
his narrative voice there could have been a streamlining of facts which
made it sound less semantic based or observational.
What is your opinion?

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23039
From: gerald-jonas@sff.net (Gerald Jonas)
Date: 2 Oct 2003 20:26:20 GMT
Subject: Re: lost heinlein
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Just more info. Thansk for the URL.

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23040
From: Bill Dauphin 
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 19:22:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Tricking Fast Readers (was Re: Mseesd Up Elingsh)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On 10/1/03 2:06 PM, in article
ag.plusone-E02012.11064801102003@wixer.greyware.com, "David M. Silver"
<ag.plusone@verizon.net> wrote:

>Why does the fact that the asterisk is next to the
> repeated word affect the quick, first read?

It doesn't. I've seen this trick many times before, and always without the
asterisks (usually without any sort of border). Even so, hardly anyone reads
it correctly the first time. I think (but can't prove) it's really all about
the line break.

-JovBill


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23041
From: Robert Slater" 
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 18:12:22 -0700
Subject: Re: Tricking Fast Readers (was Re: Mseesd Up Elingsh)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Born in 67 and the song popped into my head.
SIFI Rob
"David Wright" <dwrighsr@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:3f7bfea2.0@news.sff.net...
>
> Ed Johnson <eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote in message
> news:da0nnvkmllbr7r0qeinp2eo1sdklr9r4ed@4ax.com...
> > David:   It might by my age;  I too thought of' 'I love Paris in the
> > Spring Time' when I saw that typo.  Now the tune is running through
> > my head and I'm not even sure if it's the right tune one for that
> > title!
> >
> Cole Porter, 1953 From "Can-Can."
> --
> David Wright
>
> Join us at the next Heinlein Readers Group,Thursday October 23  at 9:00
P.M.
> EDT
> Topic is "Time Travel vs Free Will - Is there really a conflict?"
> Join the pre-discussion thread on alt.fan.heinlein
> See http://heinleinsociety.org/readersgroup/index.html#Info for
instructions
>
>
>
>



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23042
From: RPostelnek" 
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 21:00:46 -0500
Subject: Re: lost heinlein
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Hi,
When is the new book coming out? Amazon says January, and the Heinlein
Society says November.

Rosie
"JT" <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote in message
news:rc0knv8dqvimvic0nq10mpq3v4kqnsaerm@4ax.com...
> On 30 Sep 2003 16:58:36 GMT, gerald-jonas@sff.net (Gerald Jonas)
> wrote:
>
> >has there been any discussion about the "new" heinlein novel?
>
> Well, I haven't read it yet, and I'm not too keen on any "spoilers"
> until I do. :)
>
> There was a thread here that has died out entitled "For Us, the
> Living" from 7/21.
>
> I have a pre-ordered copy from Amazon (through the Heinlein Society,
> naturally ;) so I expect to have it at my doorstep the day of release
> or possibly earlier.
>
> I promise not to spill any beans myself if I get it early. <EG>
>
> JT
>



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23043
From: David M. Silver" 
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 20:00:39 -0700
Subject: Re: Stranger 1999
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

In article <3f7c6db8.0@news.sff.net>, rkaderli@yahoo.com wrote:

> David,
> Thanks. That clears up some questions I had.

I'm very happy it did.

> Here is my situation as I know it.  I oftener than not read novels checked
> out of the library so when it comes to discussing them later I have no text
> to which to refer back. The Berkley 54th printing I own is not the one I
> traded into the book store that was possibly from the 70s and said "uncut"
> on the cover, nor the original one I had that said "unabridged".  I reread
> it when I got it from the library (I guess in 91) and remembered it as being
> before the second millenium.  Not too bad, only off by 8 years.  Anyway,
> seems like just the other day that I reread it.

I sometimes feel as if I've read them all just yesterday; but I know 
better everytime I reread one of them, and find something I hadn't 
noticed before.

> What about the point I make
> about the change in sexual orientation or the voice being more objectivist
> in the uncut? I can see how thie voice part could be true since along with
> his narrative voice there could have been a streamlining of facts which
> made it sound less semantic based or observational.
> What is your opinion?

I've haven't done my annual reading of Stranger this year, yet; and I 
usually read by preference the 1991 restored edition, when I do, unless 
I get into a discussion of the comparisons with the cut 1961 edition. 
But let me try something, at least a tentative hypothesis based on past 
readings: Geo, I think, is right about the authorial voice in his essay 
-- the 1961 edition, cut by Heinlein himself to an arbitrary standard, 
and as tight as a wedged stump, lacks all the harmonics of Heinlein's 
voice; in this particular case, it lack the full, rich and nuanced 
expression he was capable of achieving to illustrate what he felt on the 
themes he wrote.

I first read the 1961 edition, as Geo did, and wasn't terribly impressed 
with it. I was still nineteen then, I think, because the paperback I 
have kept all these years is the edition printed in 1962; and I must 
have picked it up from a PX after Unc Shelby sent me back to the US 
early from a overseas tour to attend a school the Army had at Ft. 
Belvoir, to -- believe it or not -- study Math and English to take the 
college boards so I would maybe be found eligible for an appointment to 
Hudson High or Canoe U or that then pretty new place out in Colorado 
Springs. We were encouraged to engage in free time fiction reading -- 
they wanted us to adapt back to the college student mode rather than 
what some of us had been: grunts of various types, so when I saw a new 
Heinlein was out on the paperback rack in the PX I picked it up. I 
easily recognized it for what it was: a satire, especially on religion, 
but also to a good extent on the orthodox US mores, or more properly 
prejudices, about sex. I liked it, but I thought Phil Wylie was more 
fun! Wylie used a lot more acid; and I liked strong unsubtle flavorings 
then. There was an awful lot crammed in that one piece of fiction, 
SiaSL, I recognized that, but I just didn't want to deeply engage my 
mind in everything that was there. I probably read it a couple more 
times in the next five years, when I had access to it (I took it home 
and left it over Christmas Leave, because you really never have the room 
to keep a library around in the service, and I didn't want to have to 
dump it in the trash the next time I received a PCS. One would come 
early next summer at the latest.) Years later when the flower children 
adopted it as their own, I took another very hard look at it -- I 
couldn't believe they'd missed the essentially satiric aspect of it; but 
then again I was a little too old or maybe put away wet too many times 
to buy into much believed by that generation that I missed by only a 
couple years or so. 

I noticed the trade paperback sized edition in 1991 (completely missed 
the hardbound if there ever was one), and wondered. Since my 1962 copy 
was pretty dog-eared, I picked it up and read Ginny's forward, 
explaining about restoring the cuts -- I'll try anything once -- so I 
bought a copy. 

I was absolutely astonished when I read it. It was so much richer, 
fuller, more challenging, and better and more enjoyable than I 
remembered. The 1991 edition, of course. Perhaps the fact that I was 
forty-nine years old had a bit to do with that. 

You're quite correct: the voice is more "observational" I believe if by 
that you intend balanced, rounded, and complete in full expression of 
thoughts. 

But I've never really paid a lot of attention to the "change in sexual 
orientation" as you term it. I'll have to try to focus on that aspect, 
when next I reread it. I remember in 1991 being delighted with the game 
Michael plays on Jill when she takes the stage as a Las Vegas showgirl. 
I don't recall that reaction as particularily strong from my 
nineteen-year-old's reading in 1962. 

The above is more of a personal impression than you probably wish; I 
confess I'm not ready today to address the question fully in litcrit 
mode, or anything close to it; but there you have it. Hope it helps.

-- 
David M. Silver www.heinleinsociety.org
"The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!"
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA '29, Lt.(jg), USN, R'td, 1907-88

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23044
From: David M. Silver" 
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 20:07:25 -0700
Subject: Re: lost heinlein
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

In article <3f7cd854.0@news.sff.net>,
 "RPostelnek" <rpostelnek@prodigy.net> wrote:

Simon & Shuster's editor [S&S controls the Scribner's imprint] tells us, 
and the agent and literary executor November 28, Rosie. 

They want to make it possible for people to get them before Christmas 
despite the CYA announcement. 

We'll see. ;-)

> Hi,
> When is the new book coming out? Amazon says January, and the Heinlein
> Society says November.
> 
> Rosie
> "JT" <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote in message
> news:rc0knv8dqvimvic0nq10mpq3v4kqnsaerm@4ax.com...
> > On 30 Sep 2003 16:58:36 GMT, gerald-jonas@sff.net (Gerald Jonas)
> > wrote:
> >
> > >has there been any discussion about the "new" heinlein novel?
> >
> > Well, I haven't read it yet, and I'm not too keen on any "spoilers"
> > until I do. :)
> >
> > There was a thread here that has died out entitled "For Us, the
> > Living" from 7/21.
> >
> > I have a pre-ordered copy from Amazon (through the Heinlein Society,
> > naturally ;) so I expect to have it at my doorstep the day of release
> > or possibly earlier.
> >
> > I promise not to spill any beans myself if I get it early. <EG>
> >
> > JT
> >
> 
>

-- 
David M. Silver www.heinleinsociety.org
"The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!"
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA '29, Lt.(jg), USN, R'td, 1907-88

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23045
From: Robert Slater" 
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 21:12:26 -0700
Subject: Re: Stranger 1999
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

> I noticed the trade paperback sized edition in 1991 (completely missed
> the hardbound if there ever was one),
David,
Hardbound came out the same time.  30 yr anniversary.  I always thought the
cover completely below par.  I've seen some good SiaSL covers and this was
so bland.
SIFI Rob



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23046
From: David M. Silver" 
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 00:33:05 -0700
Subject: Re: Stranger 1999
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

In article <3f7cf72c.0@news.sff.net>,
 "Robert Slater" <rslater215@comcast.net> wrote:

> > I noticed the trade paperback sized edition in 1991 (completely missed
> > the hardbound if there ever was one),
> David,
> Hardbound came out the same time.  30 yr anniversary.  I always thought the
> cover completely below par.  I've seen some good SiaSL covers and this was
> so bland.
> SIFI Rob
> 
> 

Thanks, Rob. Still, I'm sorry I missed it. Be nice to have that edition. 
I'd been buying hardbound first editions as they came out since TEFL in 
1973 -- not that any of mine are collectors' quality anymore, those that 
survived -- some SOB walked with my copy of Number with the 
illustrations; and if I ever figure out whom . . . . <veg> They're 
getting as old, yellowed, dog-eared from reading and put away wet as I 
am. I glued the binding of my Friday back together only a few months 
ago.

-- 
David M. Silver www.heinleinsociety.org
"The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!"
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA '29, Lt.(jg), USN, R'td, 1907-88

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23047
From: fader55@delete.sbcglobal.net (Fader)
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 10:18:25 GMT
Subject: Re: Tricking Fast Readers (was Re: Mseesd Up Elingsh)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 19:22:45 -0400, Bill Dauphin
<dauphinb@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>I think (but can't prove) it's really all about
>the line break.

I'm almost certain that it is, I first saw this on the subway when I
was 12-13, didn't catch it then. (subway may not be the best/fairest
of places to read it) I've also seen,

two peas
in a 
a pod

Fader

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23048
From: rkaderli@yahoo.com
Date: 3 Oct 2003 15:10:27 GMT
Subject: Re: Stranger 1999
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

David,
No this autobio reply was precisely what I asked for. Litcrit can wait indefinitely.
Oddly enough I saw the Siasl from the other side of the age gap and drew
similar conclusions but for different reasons.
In 66 when I read it I was only 11.  I was impressed with the religious
satire like the hippies but and took it as insightful  truth rather than
satire.  The sexual content was a wee bit strong for my age but I thought
myself mature enough to get it. Glory Road had seemed randier.
I had read his other religious satire, Revolt in 2100 and the Day After
Tomorrow (sort of religious subplot). Anyway, I didn't think Siasl was his
best either, especially after I read The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress which
I tend to believe is his best.
I haven't gone back and reread anything from 73 on, simply because I didn't
care for them as much as his earlier work.  I may have read Friday twice.
It was more in the old vein. So rereading Siasl after 20 or so years was
a strange choice to me as I wasn't overly fond of it.  But then I read the
uncut version and it felt like an entirely different book (different reader
no doubt).
Richard

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23049
From: gunner" 
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 04:55:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Stranger 1999
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

your mentioning the flower children adopting "stranger" as their own brings
back a memory. back around '66 i lived in putney vermont, then the site of
"windham college" and was aquainted with a few of the students, including a
gal nicknamed "jingle bells". very much the flower child. she knew i read s.
f. and came rushing up to me one day with a copy of "stranger" clutched to
her ample bosom to tell me this was a book i "had to read" (a she was a
little late, i'd read it when the paperback came out) and saying "what an
utterly groovy person robert heinlein must be". i was a stinker, i suggested
she read "starship troopers". i saw her again a month or so later and asked
if she'd read s.t. and she said "my god! the man is an absolute fascist!".
heinlein was of course nothing of the sort as we know. simply a dammed good
writer telling dammed good stories.
"gunner"
-----------------------------------

"David M. Silver" <ag.plusone@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:ag.plusone-69A2DF.20003902102003@wixer.greyware.com...
> In article <3f7c6db8.0@news.sff.net>, rkaderli@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > David,
> > Thanks. That clears up some questions I had.
>
> I'm very happy it did.
>
> > Here is my situation as I know it.  I oftener than not read novels
checked
> > out of the library so when it comes to discussing them later I have no
text
> > to which to refer back. The Berkley 54th printing I own is not the one I
> > traded into the book store that was possibly from the 70s and said
"uncut"
> > on the cover, nor the original one I had that said "unabridged".  I
reread
> > it when I got it from the library (I guess in 91) and remembered it as
being
> > before the second millenium.  Not too bad, only off by 8 years.  Anyway,
> > seems like just the other day that I reread it.
>
> I sometimes feel as if I've read them all just yesterday; but I know
> better everytime I reread one of them, and find something I hadn't
> noticed before.
>
> > What about the point I make
> > about the change in sexual orientation or the voice being more
objectivist
> > in the uncut? I can see how thie voice part could be true since along
with
> > his narrative voice there could have been a streamlining of facts which
> > made it sound less semantic based or observational.
> > What is your opinion?
>
> I've haven't done my annual reading of Stranger this year, yet; and I
> usually read by preference the 1991 restored edition, when I do, unless
> I get into a discussion of the comparisons with the cut 1961 edition.
> But let me try something, at least a tentative hypothesis based on past
> readings: Geo, I think, is right about the authorial voice in his essay
> -- the 1961 edition, cut by Heinlein himself to an arbitrary standard,
> and as tight as a wedged stump, lacks all the harmonics of Heinlein's
> voice; in this particular case, it lack the full, rich and nuanced
> expression he was capable of achieving to illustrate what he felt on the
> themes he wrote.
>
> I first read the 1961 edition, as Geo did, and wasn't terribly impressed
> with it. I was still nineteen then, I think, because the paperback I
> have kept all these years is the edition printed in 1962; and I must
> have picked it up from a PX after Unc Shelby sent me back to the US
> early from a overseas tour to attend a school the Army had at Ft.
> Belvoir, to -- believe it or not -- study Math and English to take the
> college boards so I would maybe be found eligible for an appointment to
> Hudson High or Canoe U or that then pretty new place out in Colorado
> Springs. We were encouraged to engage in free time fiction reading --
> they wanted us to adapt back to the college student mode rather than
> what some of us had been: grunts of various types, so when I saw a new
> Heinlein was out on the paperback rack in the PX I picked it up. I
> easily recognized it for what it was: a satire, especially on religion,
> but also to a good extent on the orthodox US mores, or more properly
> prejudices, about sex. I liked it, but I thought Phil Wylie was more
> fun! Wylie used a lot more acid; and I liked strong unsubtle flavorings
> then. There was an awful lot crammed in that one piece of fiction,
> SiaSL, I recognized that, but I just didn't want to deeply engage my
> mind in everything that was there. I probably read it a couple more
> times in the next five years, when I had access to it (I took it home
> and left it over Christmas Leave, because you really never have the room
> to keep a library around in the service, and I didn't want to have to
> dump it in the trash the next time I received a PCS. One would come
> early next summer at the latest.) Years later when the flower children
> adopted it as their own, I took another very hard look at it -- I
> couldn't believe they'd missed the essentially satiric aspect of it; but
> then again I was a little too old or maybe put away wet too many times
> to buy into much believed by that generation that I missed by only a
> couple years or so.
>
> I noticed the trade paperback sized edition in 1991 (completely missed
> the hardbound if there ever was one), and wondered. Since my 1962 copy
> was pretty dog-eared, I picked it up and read Ginny's forward,
> explaining about restoring the cuts -- I'll try anything once -- so I
> bought a copy.
>
> I was absolutely astonished when I read it. It was so much richer,
> fuller, more challenging, and better and more enjoyable than I
> remembered. The 1991 edition, of course. Perhaps the fact that I was
> forty-nine years old had a bit to do with that.
>
> You're quite correct: the voice is more "observational" I believe if by
> that you intend balanced, rounded, and complete in full expression of
> thoughts.
>
> But I've never really paid a lot of attention to the "change in sexual
> orientation" as you term it. I'll have to try to focus on that aspect,
> when next I reread it. I remember in 1991 being delighted with the game
> Michael plays on Jill when she takes the stage as a Las Vegas showgirl.
> I don't recall that reaction as particularily strong from my
> nineteen-year-old's reading in 1962.
>
> The above is more of a personal impression than you probably wish; I
> confess I'm not ready today to address the question fully in litcrit
> mode, or anything close to it; but there you have it. Hope it helps.
>
> --
> David M. Silver www.heinleinsociety.org
> "The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!"
> Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA '29, Lt.(jg), USN, R'td, 1907-88



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23050
From: David M. Silver" 
Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2003 06:16:31 -0700
Subject: Re: Stranger 1999
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

In article <3f7e8b16.0@news.sff.net>, "gunner" <gunnera4@sover.net> 
wrote:

> your mentioning the flower children adopting "stranger" as their own brings
> back a memory. back around '66 i lived in putney vermont, then the site of
> "windham college" and was aquainted with a few of the students, including a
> gal nicknamed "jingle bells". very much the flower child. she knew i read s.
> f. and came rushing up to me one day with a copy of "stranger" clutched to
> her ample bosom to tell me this was a book i "had to read" (a she was a
> little late, i'd read it when the paperback came out) and saying "what an
> utterly groovy person robert heinlein must be". i was a stinker, i suggested
> she read "starship troopers". i saw her again a month or so later and asked
> if she'd read s.t. and she said "my god! the man is an absolute fascist!".

LOL, a real stinker! I was usually a little nicer to the children with 
flowers in their hair -- just smiled and listened to them babble on, 
until what Michael called the "not-stupids" sorted themselves out; and 
then I'd maybe tell them a little more about Heinlein's writings; but I 
have a serious story about that era and Stranger, and the uses to which 
it was put by one group of persons. 

I've told it before, and it's a little long so I won't inflict it on 
this newsgroup in full form. If you're interested you can see the 
following:

http://tinyurl.com/pp40 

Or, long form, which you'll probably have to paste together to use:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=20001014054843.25699.00 
004298%40ng-fi1.aol.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain 

> heinlein was of course nothing of the sort as we know. simply a dammed good
> writer telling dammed good stories.


He was that!

-- 
David M. Silver www.heinleinsociety.org
"The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!"
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA '29, Lt.(jg), USN, R'td, 1907-88

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23051
From: David M. Silver" 
Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2003 13:08:50 -0700
Subject: Re: Repost: Heinlein Society Torcon Report
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

In article <ag.plusone-BF5466.00005707092003@wixer.greyware.com>,
 "David M. Silver" <ag.plusone@verizon.net> wrote:

> I then introduced . . . [snipped paragraph] . . .  
> and finally Charles Brown. our Society's founding director, and the 
> lovely Jenni Hall, Locus Magazine's new editor, now that Charles is 
> "retired." Jenni had nicely arranged to have her camera ready during the 
> ceremonies and took some photos of the event and presentation of the 
> awards that we hope to see in Locus' next issue.
> 

There is a nice article about the awards dinner in this month's issue of 
Locus Magazine, with a photo and an illustration, beginning at page 12 
(October 2003).

> Once all the head table guests were introduced I asked them all to rise 
> and the guests vigorously applauded them. 
> 
> I then introduced Spider Robinson who began the awards ceremony with Joe 
> Haldeman's able assistance. Spider and Joe awarded the first Heinlein 
> Award to Virginia Heinlein, posthumously, for her years of devoted work 
> to publish and restore the body of Robert's works, and her overall 
> encouragement of man's quest to permanently achieve space flight and 
> colonization.
> 
> Eleanor Wood and Dr. Amy Baxter jointly accepted the award for Ginny, 
> and Amy gave a beautiful, heart warming speech about Ginny.
> 
> Next, Larry Niven and Stan Schmidt awarded a second Heinlein Award to 
> author Michael Flynn for the body of his work, which includes a fine 
> four volume series on advancement into space in the tradition set by 
> Robert Heinlein. Michael thanked the judges and us for the award, and 
> expressed his pleasure to be at the dinner.

By, as the Locus Magazine article notes, telling us, only, "They told me 
I wouldn't have to make a speech -- I'm very grateful for that, and so 
are you." Locus, at p. 63. Then all smiles, and to thunderous applause, 
he returned to his seat.

-- 
David M. Silver www.heinleinsociety.org
"The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!"
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA '29, Lt.(jg), USN, R'td, 1907-88

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23052
From: georule@civilwarstlouis.com
Date: 4 Oct 2003 21:44:32 GMT
Subject: Re: lost heinlein
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Well, here's even more for you. . .we've just posted a new Spider Robinson
article on FU,TL at www.heinleinsociety.org  Stop by and check it out.

   And on the subject of "almost lost" Heinlein, Jane Davitt's Red Planet-Blue
Pencil is also now available at www.heinleinsociety.org

Best. Geo

www.heinleinsociety.org
www.heinleinprize.com
www.robertaheinlein.com
www.civilwarstlouis.com

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23053
From: georule@civilwarstlouis.com
Date: 4 Oct 2003 21:47:33 GMT
Subject: Re: lost heinlein
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Oops! Almost Forgot!  And some bloke named Silver working out his Heinlein
Scholar chops on "I Will Fear No Evil" at THS site as well.

   Man, I *love* the smell of new pixels in the mornin'.

Best. Geo

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23054
From: gunner" 
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 23:47:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Stranger 1999
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

a very interesting story david, and i hope your young lady aquaintance did
transfer to berkeley, for all of its drawbacks even back then. i haven't
studied the manson case closely, just enough to feel that keeping him in the
brig until he dies then burying him under the yard is a good idea. "still
crazy after all these years" fits him too well though it's also "crazy like
a fox". i'm not surprised though that you and your wife didn't fall into his
web. from what i've seen of you in this newsgroup you've a solid bump of
good common sense, shared by many here, that would not allow you to be
seduced easily by would be "gurus" and charlatans, would that were more
common in "real time". i'd agree that it's unlikely that manson ever read
heinlein, or much of anything else for that matter, from all accounts he was
just a small time criminal before he learned to con the hippies. as for the
bomb making, like you i've chosen to be discreet about much of the things
learned in a long and checkered career. i did once gave a "revolutionary
collective" a demonstration of what a professional could do with an m1911a1
and two magazines but i didn't teach them how to do it, just told them "this
is what you're talking about going up against". the talk of "picking up the
gun" sort of went away after that, at least for that gang of idiots.
"gunner"
----------------------------
"David M. Silver" <ag.plusone@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:ag.plusone-F0648F.06163104102003@wixer.greyware.com...
> In article <3f7e8b16.0@news.sff.net>, "gunner" <gunnera4@sover.net>
> wrote:
>
> > your mentioning the flower children adopting "stranger" as their own
brings
> > back a memory. back around '66 i lived in putney vermont, then the site
of
> > "windham college" and was aquainted with a few of the students,
including a
> > gal nicknamed "jingle bells". very much the flower child. she knew i
read s.
> > f. and came rushing up to me one day with a copy of "stranger" clutched
to
> > her ample bosom to tell me this was a book i "had to read" (a she was a
> > little late, i'd read it when the paperback came out) and saying "what
an
> > utterly groovy person robert heinlein must be". i was a stinker, i
suggested
> > she read "starship troopers". i saw her again a month or so later and
asked
> > if she'd read s.t. and she said "my god! the man is an absolute
fascist!".
>
> LOL, a real stinker! I was usually a little nicer to the children with
> flowers in their hair -- just smiled and listened to them babble on,
> until what Michael called the "not-stupids" sorted themselves out; and
> then I'd maybe tell them a little more about Heinlein's writings; but I
> have a serious story about that era and Stranger, and the uses to which
> it was put by one group of persons.
>
> I've told it before, and it's a little long so I won't inflict it on
> this newsgroup in full form. If you're interested you can see the
> following:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/pp40
>
> Or, long form, which you'll probably have to paste together to use:
>
> http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=20001014054843.25699.00
> 004298%40ng-fi1.aol.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain
>
> > heinlein was of course nothing of the sort as we know. simply a dammed
good
> > writer telling dammed good stories.
>
>
> He was that!
>
> --
> David M. Silver www.heinleinsociety.org
> "The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!"
> Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA '29, Lt.(jg), USN, R'td, 1907-88



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23055
From: JT 
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 13:00:00 -0400
Subject: Gotta Bone to Pick with you all....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Apparently, Spider Robinson released the latest Callahan's book,
_Callahan's Con_, in August, and I don't recall one single word about
it here!  I had to learn from an unfeeling recommendations 'bot at
Amazon when I looked up info on FU,TL. <G>

So, anyway, I bought it last night but have not yet started reading.
Discussion next week will be quite welcome!

My predication is that I will feel used for having bought another one
with a weak plot just to see the characters again and get sucked into
a few multipage setups for puns. ;)

JT

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23056
From: Robert Slater" 
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:13:54 -0700
Subject: Re: Gotta Bone to Pick with you all....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

JT,
I have it on order, I think.  BUt I often wait to buy it until I can buy it
at one of his signings.  Have you read Free Lunch?
Rob


"JT" <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote in message
news:raj0ovs9q2i6f2keen9u84mhkvh3d7tb24@4ax.com...
> Apparently, Spider Robinson released the latest Callahan's book,
> _Callahan's Con_, in August, and I don't recall one single word about
> it here!  I had to learn from an unfeeling recommendations 'bot at
> Amazon when I looked up info on FU,TL. <G>
>
> So, anyway, I bought it last night but have not yet started reading.
> Discussion next week will be quite welcome!
>
> My predication is that I will feel used for having bought another one
> with a weak plot just to see the characters again and get sucked into
> a few multipage setups for puns. ;)
>
> JT



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23057
From: georule@civilwarstlouis.com
Date: 5 Oct 2003 20:13:37 GMT
Subject: Re: Gotta Bone to Pick with you all....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

J.T.--

  I can top that! I was at TORCON and talked to Spider twice, never realizing
that CON had been released, was available in the dealer room, and I could
have bought it and had him autograph it for me!  Jake got *his* autographed,
the stinker. By the time he showed me we were on the way out of town.

  Now we're waiting to buy it from our quarterly Amazon kickback in a couple
more weeks, so we won't be ready to talk about it next week.

Best. Geo

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23058
From: William J. Keaton" 
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 19:52:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Gotta Bone to Pick with you all....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


"JT" <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote in message
news:raj0ovs9q2i6f2keen9u84mhkvh3d7tb24@4ax.com...
> Apparently, Spider Robinson released the latest Callahan's book,
> _Callahan's Con_, in August, and I don't recall one single word about
> it here!

Hey JT, Spider Robinson released....oh, you know already! <g,d &r>
I thought I had mentioned it once or twice along the way. Especially since I
knew Spider would be at TorCon, etc.


> My predication is that I will feel used for having bought another one
> with a weak plot just to see the characters again and get sucked into
> a few multipage setups for puns. ;)

Probably! But it will be another fun ride along the way! Old characters, New
characters, relatives of old characters, people from other Places that (I
don't think) have appeared at "The Place" before.

It's a quick read, I got through it on the flight out to Phoenix.

Enjoy!

WJaKe



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23059
From: RPostelnek" 
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 19:28:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Gotta Bone to Pick with you all....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

JT
I knew it came out, but we didn't get at the library.  So I will wait til it
comes out in paperback. It really depends on the book whether I'll buy it in
paperback.  We got the last one at the library. I'll be interested in the
discussion.

Rosie

Rosie
"JT" <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote in message
news:raj0ovs9q2i6f2keen9u84mhkvh3d7tb24@4ax.com...
> Apparently, Spider Robinson released the latest Callahan's book,
> _Callahan's Con_, in August, and I don't recall one single word about
> it here!  I had to learn from an unfeeling recommendations 'bot at
> Amazon when I looked up info on FU,TL. <G>
>
> So, anyway, I bought it last night but have not yet started reading.
> Discussion next week will be quite welcome!
>
> My predication is that I will feel used for having bought another one
> with a weak plot just to see the characters again and get sucked into
> a few multipage setups for puns. ;)
>
> JT



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23060
From: Ed Johnson 
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 23:10:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Tricking Fast Readers (was Re: Mseesd Up Elingsh)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 18:12:22 -0700, "Robert Slater"
<rslater215@comcast.net> wrote:

>Born in 67 and the song popped into my head.
>SIFI Rob

SIFI Rob:     Then it isn't an age thing, more likely cultural (or
just: Great Heinlein minds think alike <G>.)

Ed J

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23061
From: Filksinger" 
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 00:04:58 -0700
Subject: Re: Tricking Fast Readers (was Re: Mseesd Up Elingsh)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

David M. Silver wrote:
<snip>
>
> I'm not sure I've got it; but I will note that the first time I read
> it
> I missed the glitch.

You got it. It is basic, but some people just _cannot_ see it. I realized in
7th grade or so that poor readers always saw it.

> Why does the fact that the asterisk is next to
> the repeated word affect the quick, first read?

It isn't the asterisk. Most versions the triangle is just lines, but they
wouldn't line up right. The triangle just exists to distract, I think.

> And what impact does
> the
> fact that most fast readers scan from top to bottom of a page rather
> than left to right have?

I couldn't say what, if any, effect that has.

-- 
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23062
From: Filksinger" 
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 00:06:19 -0700
Subject: Re: Tricking Fast Readers (was Re: Mseesd Up Elingsh)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Bill Dauphin wrote:
> On 10/1/03 2:06 PM, in article
> ag.plusone-E02012.11064801102003@wixer.greyware.com, "David M. Silver"
> <ag.plusone@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > Why does the fact that the asterisk is next to the
> > repeated word affect the quick, first read?
>
> It doesn't. I've seen this trick many times before, and always
> without the asterisks (usually without any sort of border). Even so,
> hardly anyone reads it correctly the first time. I think (but can't
> prove) it's really all about the line break.
>
> -JovBill

Yup, its that simple. The brain just skips over the duplicate. If you do the
duplicates side by side, your brain sees the dichotomy.

-- 
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23063
From: JT 
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 20:27:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Gotta Bone to Pick with you all....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 19:52:52 -0400, "William J. Keaton"
<wjake@prodigy.net> wrote:

>Hey JT, Spider Robinson released....oh, you know already! <g,d &r>
>I thought I had mentioned it once or twice along the way. Especially since I
>knew Spider would be at TorCon, etc.
>
That's what surprised me, 'cause I figured YOU would have said
something. Some friend! *harrumph* ;)  And poor, poor Geo.

This was the second time you'd met Spider, right, WJaKe?  Any good
stories?

JT

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23064
From: Bill Dauphin 
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 21:56:22 -0400
Subject: Paying It Forward -- A Modest Personal Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Cobbers:

I hope nobody will find this posting burdensome or offensive; forgive me in
advance if you do.

I'm woefully delinquent in answering the latest "roll call" thread (I'll get
to it RSN), but I think most of you know me. Many of you also know that a
little more than 2 years ago my daughter was diagnosed with brain cancer.
Over the ensuing year of treatment, the good doctors, nurses, patient care
associates, social workers, child life specialists, dieticians, and even
custodians at Connecticut Children's Medical Center here in Hartford not
only healed Mara (knock wood) but also provided immeasurable support and
comfort to the whole family.

My debt to CCMC is far too great to ever pay it back, but this coming
Saturday I will run in the Greater Hartford Marathon 5K race in an effort to
"pay it forward" by raising funds to benefit the patients of the hospital's
hematology/oncology department.

If this cause touches your heart, any help, however small, would be
appreciated. Giving is easy: Just visit my fundraising page (which gets the
funds directly to the hospital and provides you an automatic tax receipt):

http://www.justgiving.com/PFP/fatguyruns

....or if you prefer not to give over the web for security reasons, just
contact me directly.

Thanks for listening...

-Bill "JovBill" Dauphin, aka Mara's dad
 11 Olive Lane
 Vernon, CT 06066
 (860) 871-5951
 william.dauphin@comcast.net


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23065
From: William J. Keaton" 
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:12:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Gotta Bone to Pick with you all....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


"JT" <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote
> This was the second time you'd met Spider, right, WJaKe?  Any good
> stories?

Spider strikes me as a great guy. We chatted briefly in LA back in 1996, I
escorted him from his reading at the Convention Center to the Marriot Hotel,
where he was off to filk. From this meeting, and later conversations with
his wife Jeannie, I can tell you this: Spider would be late and lost without
help. Maybe it's just public events, like the convention, but he gets so
immersed in the moment, that he doesn't seem to worry about what's next.
They had to through us out of the reading, I think Spider would have read
the whole book if he'd had enough coffee and cigarettes.

He's since quit smoking, possibly because the wonderful smoke-free ashtray
he owns is no longer made. (See the story of "The Fount" in The Callahan
Touch, I think.) Probably for much better reasons.

For those of you who have not seen or met Spider, he is in so many ways his
characters. Former folk singer, tall skinny, etc. He's Jake Stonebender,
he's Sam (Time Pressure) he's clearly in and of so many of his stories.

I didn't have as much time as I wished to speak to him in Toronto. I got to
run sound for him at the opening ceremonies, he and Jeannie sang some songs
together, then Spider did his "Band in a Box" set, where he sings along with
a CD. For those you don't know, Spider recorded 4 songs for the Callahan's
computer game; he has the master tapes now, has mixed a CD without vocals,
so he can sing along with the really good musicians. At least two of these
songs come straight out of various Callahan's stories.

I must admit that I did try to sneak some quiet time with Spider at the
Heinlein Society Dinner. My only excuse is that he was mobbed after the
Opening Ceremonies, so I hardly got a chance to say much. (I did get to talk
to Jeannie for a bit, very nice!) Between courses, we chatted about
Heinlein, the new book, Spider's books and a bit about online fandom. I
tried not to appear as some obsessive fan, maybe the suit helped?

Hmmm. I guess that's a long-winded way of saying "No, I don't have any good
stories." They were good times for me, but I guess you had to be there.

WJaKe



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23066
From: David M. Silver" 
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 00:48:18 -0700
Subject: Re: Paying It Forward -- A Modest Personal Request
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

In article <BBA79586.9F1-dauphinb@ix.netcom.com>,
 Bill Dauphin <dauphinb@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> not
> only healed Mara (knock wood) but also provided immeasurable support and
> comfort to the whole family.

Best news I've read this year. My regards. 

I'll have to think of something appropriate in addition to what you 
suggest.

-- 
David M. Silver www.heinleinsociety.org
"The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!"
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA '29, Lt.(jg), USN, R'td, 1907-88

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23067
From: georule@civilwarstlouis.com
Date: 8 Oct 2003 03:49:33 GMT
Subject: Re: Gotta Bone to Pick with you all....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

A peach of a fellow, Spider is. Until the statute of limitations runs, I
can't say why in detail. So what else is new for Heinleiners?  Uh, come
to think of it, he may hold that one over me too. G'bless him for *immediately*
granting THS permission to reprint his FU,TL article from the Toronto Globe
and Mail. The turnaround on that email was as close to instantaneous as
it gets when you're asking a "name" to give away their intellectual property
for free. I have multiple benchmarks to prove it.

I think the next (very soon!) edition of The Heinlein Society Newsletter
will include a picture of Herself, Spider, and a sappy-grinned Geo snapped
at the THS dinner.

If you don't get the Newsletter, this is easily corrected at www.heinleinsociety.org

Best. Geo

www.heinleinsociety.org
www.heinleinprize.com
www.robertaheinlein.com
www.civilwarstlouis.com

------------------------------------------------------------

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