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Archive of:   sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Archive desc: The Internet home for the Heinlein Forum
Archived by:  webnews@sff.net
Archive date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 11:56:15
============================================================

Article 24157
From: Filksinger 
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:56:12 -0800
Subject: Re: It's 2000 All Over Again!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Update:

The Republicans have filed a lawsuit claiming that King County (most 
Democratic-leaning county in the state) is improperly counting ballots. 
The mandatory recount is electronic, and the Republican's are accusing 
King County of doing a manual recount, and are suing to make them stop.

Apparently there is a process whereby ballots that cannot be read by the 
machine are, if considered to have "clear intent" by two election 
workers (check mark instead of filling in the oval, used red ink, etc.), 
"enhanced" (fill in the red inked area with black ink, etc.) or redone 
so that machines can read them. The Republicans are suing, claiming that 
this constitutes manual recounting.

Of course, it is a) mandated by state law, and b) being done in other 
counties where the Republicans don't object (being Republican-leaning, 
or less Democrat-leaning). But nobody ever said that the parties' 
lawsuits had to be "fair and balanced", now did they?

Even odds that the electronic recount says Rossi again, but the 
Democrats force a manual recount. If the recount says Rossi _loses_, I 
guarantee a manual recount, one way or another.

-- 
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24158
From: Filksinger 
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:24:50 -0800
Subject: The Future Language of the World?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Heinlein had Spanglish as becoming the new language in the US, but 
Hinglish may end up beating it out. See:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1123/p01s03-wosc.html?s=hns
-- 
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24159
From: cdozo 
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 07:18:09 -0600
Subject: Re: The Future Language of the World?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Filk,

Thanks for the interesting link. I passed it on to Elizabeth Moon's group.

Carol
==========

Filksinger wrote:
> Heinlein had Spanglish as becoming the new language in the US, but 
> Hinglish may end up beating it out. See:
> 
> http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1123/p01s03-wosc.html?s=hns

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24160
From: Ed Johnson 
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 23:29:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Thanks
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

John Paul:   My hat is off to you.  Good Luck and God Speed.  I have
nothing but admiration for those who serve.
   Where will you be doing your basic training?  If it is in Ft.
Dix, NJ I will buy you diner if can get any time off.  I don't know
if Ft. Dix still has basic training, but they used to.

Ed J  (lives close to Ft. Dix/McGuire AFB)

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 06:58:03 -0800, John Paul Vrolyk <jp@vrolyk.org>
wrote:

>Ed, Carol,
>
>> Ed Johnson wrote:
>> > John Paul:   You are probably too young to have been in any of the
>> > shootin' wars
>
>cdozo wrote:
>> When people enlist, they have no idea what the
>> future will hold.
>
>As Infantry, it wouldn't suprise me too much if
>I end up in Iraq or Afganistan in short order
>after I finish boot camp.  But we'll see.


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24161
From: John Paul Vrolyk 
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 22:06:02 -0800
Subject: Re: Thanks
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Ed Johnson wrote:
> John Paul:   My hat is off to you.  Good Luck and God Speed.  I have
> nothing but admiration for those who serve.

Thanks.  It's going to be a big change for me and my family,
though.  But I won't have to worry about not getting enough
exercise anymore.  :-)  And they'll pay for my ammo!

>    Where will you be doing your basic training?  If it is in Ft.
> Dix, NJ I will buy you diner if can get any time off.  I don't know
> if Ft. Dix still has basic training, but they used to.

They do basic in several place, but I don't know if NJ is
still one of them.  I'm destined for Ft. Benning, GA, though,
unless something changes before I go.

-- 
John Paul Vrolyk
jp@vrolyk.org

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24162
From: Ed Johnson 
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 09:13:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Thanks
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 22:06:02 -0800, John Paul Vrolyk <jp@vrolyk.org>
wrote:

 <snip>
>
>They do basic in several place, but I don't know if NJ is
>still one of them.  I'm destined for Ft. Benning, GA, though,
>unless something changes before I go.
John Paul:      You should run every day to 'get in shape' before
your first day of basic (good advice someone gave me 34 years ago
<g>).  Not Ft. Dix? So make that a rain-check for dinner for you and
Les & family when next we meet.

Ed J


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24163
From: Ed Johnson 
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 09:29:00 -0500
Subject: PHILCON 2004
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Better Late than Never Dept.:   I have just registered for
Philadelphia's SciFi convention.  Who all is going? 

WJake: Will I see you there?

Are any cobbers staying at the Marriott?
   This is my first SF convention; will I need a Klingon-to-English
dictionary or will they have volunteer translators at the hotel? <G>

Ed J


   


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24164
From: William Keaton" 
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:28:40 -0500
Subject: Re: PHILCON 2004
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

You had me going for a second, as I was trying to figure out why you would
be registering for the Millenium Philcon, held in 2001. Sorry, my WorldCon
bias is showing!

That weekend, I will be winging my way to Phoenix for my Mom's birthday,
late Thanksgiving and early Christmas celebration.

Have yourself a wondeful time, I would have considered attending, but this
is the closest week I could get to Christmas with the family.

WJaKe


"Ed Johnson" <eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote in message
news:4p59q01o8o9goia1589j5aqnff5muo95p7@4ax.com...
> Better Late than Never Dept.:   I have just registered for
> Philadelphia's SciFi convention.  Who all is going?
>
> WJake: Will I see you there?
>
> Are any cobbers staying at the Marriott?
>    This is my first SF convention; will I need a Klingon-to-English
> dictionary or will they have volunteer translators at the hotel? <G>
>
> Ed J
>
>
>
>



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24165
From: David M. Silver" 
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 12:33:11 -0800
Subject: Re: Thanks
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

In article <41A424CA.4E1EF9D3@vrolyk.org>,
 John Paul Vrolyk <jp@vrolyk.org> wrote:

> Ed Johnson wrote:
> > John Paul:   My hat is off to you.  Good Luck and God Speed.  I have
> > nothing but admiration for those who serve.
> 
> Thanks.  It's going to be a big change for me and my family,
> though.  But I won't have to worry about not getting enough
> exercise anymore.  :-)  And they'll pay for my ammo!
> 
> >    Where will you be doing your basic training?  If it is in Ft.
> > Dix, NJ I will buy you diner if can get any time off.  I don't know
> > if Ft. Dix still has basic training, but they used to.
> 
> They do basic in several place, but I don't know if NJ is
> still one of them.  I'm destined for Ft. Benning, GA, though,
> unless something changes before I go.

Give my regards to Columbus, I'm sure Phenix City across the 
river is still dead; but stay away from Blood Alley if anything 
like it still exists, please. Buy plenty of calamine lotion, if 
you get into late spring or early summer before you leave; and 
watch out any time you get near what the topo maps claim is an 
intermittent stream for cottonmouths, and rattlesnakes too. I 
spent an interesting seven months there in 1962, up to the 
beginning of October. 

A song you probably won't have to learn, unless you're a 
masochist, is: 

   Far across the Chattahouchi // To the Upatoi
   Stands our loyal Alma Mater // Benning's School for Boys
   Forward ever // Backward never
   Faithfully we strive // To the ports of embarkation
   Follow Me! // And die*. 

[*official version is "With Pride."]

-- 
David M. Silver www.heinleinsociety.org
"The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!"
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA '29, Lt.(jg), USN, R'td, 1907-88

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24166
From: David M. Silver" 
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 12:41:52 -0800
Subject: Re: PHILCON 2004
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

In article <4p59q01o8o9goia1589j5aqnff5muo95p7@4ax.com>,
 Ed Johnson <eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote:

> Better Late than Never Dept.:   I have just registered for
> Philadelphia's SciFi convention.  Who all is going? 
> 
> WJake: Will I see you there?
> 
> Are any cobbers staying at the Marriott?
>    This is my first SF convention; will I need a Klingon-to-English
> dictionary or will they have volunteer translators at the hotel? <G>
> 
> Ed J
> 
> 
>    

I'm not sure anyone from the Society will be there: the Red 
Cross, at the latest report, has backed out of the blood drive; 
but email Barry Berman <doc4kidz@comcast.net>, or J.J. Brannon 
<jjbrannon@aol.com> as possibly one of them may be attending, and 
know of others.

-- 
David M. Silver www.heinleinsociety.org
"The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!"
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA '29, Lt.(jg), USN, R'td, 1907-88

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24167
From: Filksinger 
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 13:08:05 -0800
Subject: Faith-Based Parks?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

I wrote this out already, but it disappeared, and doesn't appear to have 
been sent. So, here we go again. Maybe we'll have some controversy, 
liven things up? Or maybe not.:)

While I am a strong proponent for freedom of religion, and for keeping 
the government out of religion, you may have noticed that I am very 
vague about my own beliefs, if any. A close look will discover that, 
even when you think I may have said something concerning my religion, I 
did not.

So, for the curious, a treat. For possibly the only clear statement 
concerning _any_ of my religious beliefs _you will ever get_, see the 
mp3 link at the bottom of the email.:)

(I have probably sent this out before, but I felt it not only 
appropriate to the topic, but I also love the song.)


------------
According to PEER, an activist group consisting of Federal Park Service 
employees, the Bush Administration has decided to remove information at 
national parks and monuments that they don't approve of, and add 
information that they do.

Examples:

1. The Grand Canyon, according to the National Parks Services, no longer 
has an official age estimate.

2. The official Lincoln Memorial video in use for the past several years 
was edited to remove all footage of gay rights, pro-choice, and 
anti-Vietnam protests at the monument.

3. Grand Canyon publications for guides has references to the lack of 
scientific foundation for creationism removed.

4. Books sold at the National Parks bookstore at the Grand Canyon now 
include a book claiming that the age of the Grand Canyon is 4,500 years. 
Promised reviews of the legality of this were never done, but the book 
instead was approved without the reviews.

5. Plaques of Bible quotes at the Grand Canyon that the National Park 
Service removed for legal reasons were ordered restored. Again, promised 
reviews of the legality of this action never happened.

See:

http://snipurl.com/atxg
and
http://www.peer.org/faith-based/faith-basedcampaign.html

For more about PEER:
http://www.peer.org

And, for possibly the only statement about my religious beliefs you will 
ever get from me, this song:
http://www.prometheus-music.com/audio/wordgod.mp3

The song is from the Virtual Filksing, at 
http://www.prometheus-music.com/eli/virtual.html. The Virtual Filksing 
has a variety of MP3s of filk for a wide variety of tastes.

-- 
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24168
From: JT 
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 19:49:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Thanks
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 22:06:02 -0800, John Paul Vrolyk <jp@vrolyk.org>
wrote:

>Thanks.  It's going to be a big change for me and my family,
>though.  But I won't have to worry about not getting enough
>exercise anymore.  :-)  And they'll pay for my ammo!
>
Well, now that it's official, I'll say "Good Luck".  At least VA Beach
is a little closer to see the rest of the Vrolyks than WA.

As if I didn't have enough worrying about my niece just starting ROTC
as an Army nurse, now I gotta pray for you, too. ;)

JT



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24169
From: JT 
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 20:06:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Faith-Based Parks?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 13:08:05 -0800, Filksinger
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:

>
>While I am a strong proponent for freedom of religion, and for keeping 
>the government out of religion, you may have noticed that I am very 
>vague about my own beliefs, if any. A close look will discover that, 
>even when you think I may have said something concerning my religion, I 
>did not.
>
>So, for the curious, a treat. For possibly the only clear statement 
>concerning _any_ of my religious beliefs _you will ever get_, see the 
>mp3 link at the bottom of the email.:)

Why be so vague?  I wouldn't mind anyone here speaking about their
religious beliefs.  We protect this space as a place to explain why we
hold a particular position, I don't see religion as any different
except that as a "core issue" --people usually need to be reminded
sooner that it's one you're not likely to change no matter how much
someone else would like you to. ;)

I certainly have a more evolved position of faith over the last 15
years, and the Forum has helped that, in part.

For the record, I'm attending Roman Catholic church currently,
background in Protestantism.  I have seen enough of Asian martial arts
from experience to recognize chi.  I have performed one perfectly
legal religious wedding.

I basically believe that faith is focused through culture and as long
as you can accept that I have my faith, I'm quite willing to let you
have yours.

Anyone else willing to talk about beliefs?  

BTW, Filk, that was a good song you linked to.

JT


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24170
From: Ed Johnson 
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 22:21:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Faith-Based Parks?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

JT:   I haven't seen any born-again heathens hereabouts lately ;-)


Ed J

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24171
From: Filksinger 
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 20:49:19 -0800
Subject: Re: Faith-Based Parks?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

JT wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 13:08:05 -0800, Filksinger
> <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:
<snip>
>>So, for the curious, a treat. For possibly the only clear statement 
>>concerning _any_ of my religious beliefs _you will ever get_, see the 
>>mp3 link at the bottom of the email.:)
> 
> 
> Why be so vague?  I wouldn't mind anyone here speaking about their
> religious beliefs.

Neither would I, if someone wishes to state or discuss their beliefs. 
For myself, however, I have a strong preference not to do so, in most 
cases, and particularly in a public forum. _Especially_ a forum where 
religion, social commentary, and politics are sometimes hotly debated 
topics.

There are two reasons:

First, a simple strong personal preference not to discuss my beliefs. I 
just don't want to discuss them. To some degree I was influenced by this 
by Heinlein. Heinlein not only avoided statements of religious belief 
personally, at least publicly, but in addition his "elder statesmen" 
characters often did the same.

Secondly, if one states outright, or even _implies_, a strong overall 
position on a great many topics, including religion or politics, it 
causes considerable difficulty in calm, rational discussion of such 
topics. People who disagree with your overall position become unwilling 
to listen to your arguments, while people who agree with your overall 
stated position are upset when you refuse to support their current agenda.

_Assumptions_ about my beliefs on this list got me accused of "moral 
cowardice" from one person, and Clinton being "my boy", _despite 
repeated direct statements to the contrary_, by another, during the 
impeachment debacle, as well as a so-called "apology" containing a 
buried accusation that I "use the Bible to defend immorality".

I believe it was you who were recently attacked as having already "made 
up your mind" and being "unwilling to listen to any facts" when you 
dared to point out, _absolutely correctly_, that another poster's 
"facts" were, in reality, second-hand opinions of people who, 
themselves, were not shown to have direct knowledge of the subject.

This state of affairs gets worse when your opponent believes, in 
advance, that some label (Christian Fundamentalist, Left-Wing Liberal, 
Republican, Objectivist, atheist) can be applied to you. This is often 
treated as making your opinions either inherently biased and unworthy of 
consideration (if they believe differently), or gets you attacked by 
people who share that label who don't appreciate that your opinion on a 
particular subject doesn't fit that shared label, as they view it.

For an example, try claiming to be Catholic, then take _either side_ of 
the abortion debate in a mixed group. Or, state a _firm and strong_ 
opinion that people have a broad and fundamental right to keep and bear 
arms, in a group with similar opinions, then argue that a particular 
weapon (futuristic cyberweapons that are built into your head, per "The 
Diamond Age", or WMD, for two examples) should be banned.

>  We protect this space as a place to explain why we
> hold a particular position, I don't see religion as any different
> except that as a "core issue" --people usually need to be reminded
> sooner that it's one you're not likely to change no matter how much
> someone else would like you to. ;)

That's another reason I don't like stating a strong position on such 
subjects. Many of my opinions were formed by _carefully listening to 
people I disagreed with_, considering their positions in depth, 
considering whether or not I was wrong, _then_ deciding whether or not 
my position should be modified and how much. If they gave up early, I 
might never get enough information to get rid of my bad opinions. How 
can I ever achieve my goal of being always right about everything if I 
can't find out when I am wrong?

> I certainly have a more evolved position of faith over the last 15
> years, and the Forum has helped that, in part.

I have, as well, though I've only been here 9 years.

> For the record, I'm attending Roman Catholic church currently,
> background in Protestantism.  I have seen enough of Asian martial arts
> from experience to recognize chi.  I have performed one perfectly
> legal religious wedding.

Interesting.

> I basically believe that faith is focused through culture and as long
> as you can accept that I have my faith, I'm quite willing to let you
> have yours.

I try to do the same. This sometimes includes being very careful about 
not _breaking_ a person's beliefs when expressing opinions that 
challenge them. I learned early on that I could, if I chose, severely 
upset many people by doing too good of a job of challenging what they 
believed.

> Anyone else willing to talk about beliefs?  
> 
> BTW, Filk, that was a good song you linked to.

Thank you. A strong personal favorite, as it phrases its position so 
very well. I don't think I have seen it put better anywhere else. I've 
found that the phrase, "Humans wrote the Bible, God wrote the rocks" to 
be very useful.
-- 
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24172
From: Filksinger 
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 20:50:17 -0800
Subject: Re: Faith-Based Parks?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Unless, of course, I'm one.:)

Ed Johnson wrote:
> JT:   I haven't seen any born-again heathens hereabouts lately ;-)
> 
> 
> Ed J

-- 
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24173
From: Filksinger 
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 21:25:06 -0800
Subject: Latest On Washington Gubernatorial Election
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Dino Rossi (R) over Christine Gregoire (D) by _48_ votes, out of 
2,808,342 votes, a difference of 0.0015%.

Democrats are requesting that "abnormalities", such as some areas having 
more votes than registered voters, be investigated before the election 
is certified Nov 30th, at which time they have three days to challenge 
the results. The Democrats claim that they haven't yet decided on a hand 
recount, which they may or may not have to pay for. This is code for "We 
won't challenge the results until we are sure that, once the 
irregularities are investigated, we didn't win."

Hand recount will probably be done before Christmas, but probably not 
more than a week before.

Check out the second page. According to this, all candidates gained 
votes in the electronic recount. Not actually odd considering the many 
likely reasons, but amusing nevertheless.

http://www.kirotv.com/politics/3938223/detail.html

http://www.kirotv.com/85651/page.html
-- 
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24174
From: Filksinger 
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 21:26:59 -0800
Subject: Interesting Pictures
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Leaping sharks, purple polar bears, and very low altitude fighter jet 
ejections. Might find something you like.

http://www.kirotv.com/slideshow/news/3751995/detail.html
-- 
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24175
From: JT 
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 14:55:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Faith-Based Parks?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 20:49:19 -0800, Filksinger
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:

>Neither would I, if someone wishes to state or discuss their beliefs. 
>For myself, however, I have a strong preference not to do so, in most 
>cases, and particularly in a public forum. _Especially_ a forum where 
>religion, social commentary, and politics are sometimes hotly debated 
>topics.
It just struck me funny-- "I'm not going to make a statement about my
beliefs, but if you look real hard you'll find one below."  I -know-
that's not what you said exactly, but just by posting the information
about the parks followed by the filk, you are making a fairly defined
statement anyway.

>I believe it was you who were recently attacked as having already "made 
>up your mind" and being "unwilling to listen to any facts" when you 
>dared to point out, _absolutely correctly_, that another poster's 
>"facts" were, in reality, second-hand opinions of people who, 
>themselves, were not shown to have direct knowledge of the subject.

I guess that's why I'm such a peacemaker--I don't even remember that.
Can't hold a grudge if you don't remember them! ;)

>
>For an example, try claiming to be Catholic, then take _either side_ of 
>the abortion debate in a mixed group.

Yeah, I'm finding that.  I joined the RC Church to give my children a
single framework to build their values from.  Christine was raised
Catholic, but I didn't see the point in attending two churches
regularly.  I was lucky enough to attend a liberal parish where the
priest had the right answers to my questions about doctrine, so I
could in good conscience join.  However, if I ever were to get in a
real discussion with the Pope I'm not sure that I could leave without
him ripping up my membership card.  Good thing I've no plans to go to
the Vatican any time soon. ;)

>> How 
>can I ever achieve my goal of being always right about everything if I 
>can't find out when I am wrong?

LOL!  I don't think we should ever meet, because my wife would kill
both of us. ;)



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24176
From: Deb@sff.net (D.A. Houdek)
Date: 26 Nov 2004 17:18:41 GMT
Subject: First Snow in Minnesota
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

...well, it was my first snowfall in ten years! I spent Thanksgiving at
my folk's place for the first time in a decade and there was a bit of snow
that started falling. Lovely! 

  I'm set-up in a townhouse in Edina, MN, (suburb of Minneapolis) just awaiting
Geo's job to wrap and him to arrive. Me and two of the cats, Tasha and Krystal.


  Deb
  http://www.dahoudek.com

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24177
From: JT 
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 19:23:46 -0500
Subject: Re: First Snow in Minnesota
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On 26 Nov 2004 17:18:41 GMT, Deb@sff.net (D.A. Houdek) wrote:

>..well, it was my first snowfall in ten years! I spent Thanksgiving at
>my folk's place for the first time in a decade and there was a bit of snow
>that started falling. Lovely! 
>
>  I'm set-up in a townhouse in Edina, MN, (suburb of Minneapolis) just awaiting
>Geo's job to wrap and him to arrive. Me and two of the cats, Tasha and Krystal.
>
May it not be a long wait. ;)

JT

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24178
From: Filksinger 
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 17:12:46 -0800
Subject: Re: Faith-Based Parks?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

JT wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 20:49:19 -0800, Filksinger
> <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:
> 
<snip>
> 
> It just struck me funny-- "I'm not going to make a statement about my
> beliefs, but if you look real hard you'll find one below."  I -know-
> that's not what you said exactly, but just by posting the information
> about the parks followed by the filk, you are making a fairly defined
> statement anyway.

It is, but it is less defined than you think. I do not, in that song, 
make a statement as to the validity of the Bible in an way, nor even 
whether or not I actually believe that there is a God. Instead, I am 
saying, in essence, "If there is a being, called "God", who created the 
world, then I will trust his creation to reveal the truth about that 
time of that creation over any religious book." I appreciate the song 
most in that it expresses the opinion in such a way that it 
short-circuits argument with those most likely to argue with me. They 
may not agree, but they generally stop arguing.

<snip>
> Good thing I've no plans to go to
> the Vatican any time soon. ;)

I suspect that you won't find the Pope arguing dogma with you if you do, 
so it is probably safe.:)

> 
> 
>>>How 
>>
>>can I ever achieve my goal of being always right about everything if I 
>>can't find out when I am wrong?
> 
> 
> LOL!  I don't think we should ever meet, because my wife would kill
> both of us. ;)

She might not have to. We'd probably heterodyne, and the positive 
feedback could be fatal anyway.

-- 
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24179
From: John Paul Vrolyk 
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 18:09:56 -0800
Subject: Re: Thanks
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

"David M. Silver" wrote:
> A song you probably won't have to learn, unless you're a
> masochist, is:
> 
>    Far across the Chattahouchi // To the Upatoi
<snip>

If I'm understanding you correctly, then it's my plan to
learn that song, so to speak.  (I'm told they're more
willing to waive the age restrictions for one of their own
than for a civilian walking in off the street, which is
why I'm doing it the way I am.)

-- 
John Paul Vrolyk
jp@vrolyk.org

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24180
From: David M. Silver" 
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 22:58:00 -0800
Subject: Re: Thanks
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

In article <41A7E1F4.C463676@vrolyk.org>,
 John Paul Vrolyk <jp@vrolyk.org> wrote:

> "David M. Silver" wrote:
> > A song you probably won't have to learn, unless you're a
> > masochist, is:
> > 
> >    Far across the Chattahouchi // To the Upatoi
> <snip>
> 
> If I'm understanding you correctly, then it's my plan to
> learn that song, so to speak.  (I'm told they're more
> willing to waive the age restrictions for one of their own
> than for a civilian walking in off the street, which is
> why I'm doing it the way I am.)

If you get by the boards and you think information about how it 
was forty years ago will be useful, drop me an email. Good luck.

-- 
David M. Silver www.heinleinsociety.org
"The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!"
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA '29, Lt.(jg), USN, R'td, 1907-88

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24181
From: William Keaton" 
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 12:45:36 -0500
Subject: Re: First Snow in Minnesota
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


"D.A. Houdek" <Deb@sff.net> wrote in message news:41a76571.0@news.sff.net...
> ..well, it was my first snowfall in ten years!

Hmmm, bringing back memories, yes?

>   I'm set-up in a townhouse in Edina, MN, (suburb of Minneapolis) just
awaiting
> Geo's job to wrap and him to arrive. Me and two of the cats, Tasha and
Krystal.

And of course, internet access was one of the first things you had
installed! <g>

Welcome (back) home. There are still days when I miss the Great Midwest.

WJaKe



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24182
From: Filksinger 
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 21:13:35 -0800
Subject: We Must Save Heinlein!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

A contest in 1999 by the New York Times for a method of preserving all 
1999 copies of the Times for 1000 years rejected the best proposal. I 
say we should grab it for saving all Heinlein novels. This method will 
survive global warming, nuclear war, and even Nehemiah Scudder. I 
suggest that we use it, quick, before somebody else beats us to it.

What you do is encode all of Heinlein's works into DNA, then introduce 
it into the introns of cockroaches. Breed a few hundred thousand, make 
sure they can interbreed with the local cockroaches, then release them 
in the major cities of the world.

http://www.themorningnews.org/archives/editorial/storage_facility.php
http://www.advanced.org/jaron/roach.html
http://www.brlsi.org/proceed02/science011.htm
-- 
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24183
From: JT 
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 13:55:10 -0500
Subject: Re: We Must Save Heinlein!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 21:13:35 -0800, Filksinger
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:

>A contest in 1999 by the New York Times for a method of preserving all 
>1999 copies of the Times for 1000 years rejected the best proposal. 

Filk, you have too much time to read. ;)

JT

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24184
From: Filksinger 
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 20:24:06 -0800
Subject: What Does a Penny Look Like?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Think you know what a US penny looks like? Wanna bet?

http://www.exploratorium.edu/exhibits/common_cents/index.html
-- 
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24185
From: cdozo 
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 22:38:37 -0600
Subject: Re: What Does a Penny Look Like?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

That is cool. I got the details right, but the coin was reversed.

Carol
=========

Filksinger wrote:
> Think you know what a US penny looks like? Wanna bet?
> 
> http://www.exploratorium.edu/exhibits/common_cents/index.html

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24186
From: William Keaton" 
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:43:17 -0500
Subject: Re: What Does a Penny Look Like?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


"cdozo" <cadozo@planet-save.com> wrote in message
news:41abf888.0@news.sff.net...
> That is cool. I got the details right, but the coin was reversed.

I did the exact same thing! No cheating folks!!

WJaKe



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24187
From: cdozo 
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 13:25:56 -0600
Subject: This is Funny
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

There is a Back to the Future community in Live Journal. One of the 
members wrote a funny scene in which RAH and Philip K. Dick argue plot 
developments for the script of Back to the Future.

You can read it at:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/stargurl137/752.html

Carol

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24188
From: Lorrita Morgan" 
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:43:28 -0800
Subject: Re: What Does a Penny Look Like?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

GMTA
We must all look at our pennies in a mirror.

-- 
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=

`rita
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"cdozo" <cadozo@planet-save.com> wrote in message
news:41abf888.0@news.sff.net...
> That is cool. I got the details right, but the coin was reversed.
>
> Carol
> =========
>
> Filksinger wrote:
> > Think you know what a US penny looks like? Wanna bet?
> >
> > http://www.exploratorium.edu/exhibits/common_cents/index.html



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24189
From: Mitch Wagner" 
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:43:07 +0000
Subject: Re: This is Funny
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Very cool.

I remember thinking, when I saw "Back to the Future," that in many ways 
it resembled a Heinlein juvenile.

Mitch Wagner



"cadozo@planet-save.com" <cadozo@planet-save.com> wrote in message 
news:cadozo@planet-save.com:
> There is a Back to the Future community in Live Journal. One of the
> members wrote a funny scene in which RAH and Philip K. Dick argue plot
> developments for the script of Back to the Future.
>
> You can read it at:
>
> http://www.livejournal.com/users/stargurl137/752.html
>
> Carol


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24190
From: Filksinger 
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 13:53:24 -0800
Subject: Hurry to Cascadiacon!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

To all you big convention-goers, I'm sorry. I goofed. I should have 
posted this a month ago.

Every year that Worldcon is overseas (this year, Scotland), there is a 
NASFiC (North American Science Fiction Convention) in the US. Because of 
the size of US fandom, NASFiC is usually the larger of the two.

This time, NASFiC is near the SeaTac Airport, just south of Seattle. If 
you purchase a _supporting_ membership today ($35), either by mailing a 
check or by credit card online, you can lock in today's price for the 
con ($85), paid in installments of whatever you wish.

However, the price goes up tomorrow. No idea how much, but I wouldn't be 
surprised if the _eventual_ door price is $130-160. I don't expect 
tomorrow's price to be over $110, but that's still a significant markup, 
especially if you are local and the price of the con is your biggest cost.

So, anybody who finds Seattle more convenient than Scotland, or who can 
afford both (don't I wish, but I can take a county bus to the con and 
still can barely afford it), get in quick! Even if you can't do it in 
time today, the installment plan does allow you tie down tomorrow's 
price, which undoubtedly is less than the door price.

-- 
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24191
From: JT 
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 18:24:05 -0500
Subject: Re: What Does a Penny Look Like?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:43:28 -0800, "Lorrita Morgan"
<lorrita_m@hotmail.com> wrote:

>GMTA
>We must all look at our pennies in a mirror.

Must be all the years coin-collecting with my dad.  I got it in about
two seconds and was looking for "the catch". ;)

JT

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24192
From: JT 
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 18:34:47 -0500
Subject: Re: This is Funny
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 13:25:56 -0600, cdozo <cadozo@planet-save.com>
wrote:

>There is a Back to the Future community in Live Journal. 

That was really funny! If they ever post part two, remind us about it
here. 

JT



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24193
From: Ed Johnson 
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 22:05:18 -0500
Subject: Re: What Does a Penny Look Like?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

I'm in the same boat with JT.
   It just looked right, and it was.
  I usually don't do good on things where you 'think' you know what
they look like.
Ed J

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 18:24:05 -0500, JT <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote:

>On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:43:28 -0800, "Lorrita Morgan"
><lorrita_m@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>GMTA
>>We must all look at our pennies in a mirror.
>
>Must be all the years coin-collecting with my dad.  I got it in about
>two seconds and was looking for "the catch". ;)
>
>JT


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24194
From: Filksinger 
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:24:34 -0800
Subject: Re: What Does a Penny Look Like?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

My problem was that I seemed to be convinced that I had recently 
established by touch that there was nothing over Lincoln's head. I had 
no problem with reversals.

Filksinger wrote:
> Think you know what a US penny looks like? Wanna bet?
> 
> http://www.exploratorium.edu/exhibits/common_cents/index.html

-- 
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined

------------------------------------------------------------

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