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Archive of: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Archive desc: The Internet home for the Heinlein Forum
Archived by: webnews@sff.net
Archive date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 02:46:51
============================================================
Article 21559
From: Filksinger"
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 19:18:50 -0700
Subject: Re: Federal Marriage Amendment
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Charles Graft wrote:
> > "
> > "Michael P. Calligaro" wrote:
> > I don't buy it. As I see it, the federal government passing laws
> > that forbid the states from allowing actions that don't directly harm
> > people is a Bad Thing(tm). If the federal government wanted to pass
> > a law that forbid the states from taking away freedoms, that would be
> > fine. But forbiding that states grant them is out of line and has no
> > place whatsoever in our constitution. bytor
>
> Bytor--
> This does directly harm people. Someone ends up paying for it.
> But as long as it is not the politician doing the voting, they will
> vote for anything that sounds good.
Arguably, this isn't an argument against treating other couples/groups the
same as marrieds, it is the fault of treating marrieds differently. After
all, the married couples are already getting this "free lunch".
Either the marrieds are performing some service(s) to society by being
married which justifies the perks, or they are getting a "free lunch". If
they are actually paying their way by this service, then identify this/these
service(s). Now, any group that supplies the same service(s) should get the
same benefits, to the degree that they supply these services (including
getting more benefits, if they do greater service to society than married
couples).
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21560
From: Charles Graft
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 14:48:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Federal Marriage Amendment
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Bytor--
> I can't believe you're coming down on the side of pushing power up
toward the
> federal level instead of down toward the city level.
I am NOT coming out on their side; I am merely pointing out the
justification that they use. And the fact that most of the proponents
seem to believe that this expansion is free. TANSTAAFL.
--
<<Big Charlie>>
"Democracy is a form of worship. It is the worship of jackals by
jackasses." -- H. L. Menken
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21561
From: noone"
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 00:22:21 -0400
Subject: Re: from the babylon5 newsgroup...
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"It's the politicians who've given patriotism a bad name."
too flaming right!
"gunner"
------------------------------
"Voxwoman" <voxwoman@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3D38638E.1080004@hotmail.com...
> This was posted today on another NG, and I thought you'd like to see it...
> -Wendy of NJ
> I came across this in an interview of Robert Heinlein by Alfred
> Bester. It was first published in Publishers Weekly in 1973, and
> I got it from the book Redemolished, which is a collection of
> short stories, essays and interviews by Bester.
>
> I can't say I know much of either of their philosophies.
> But I like RH's translation for patriotism. Might even take
> it up as a sig.
>
> All typos are mined.
>
> =====
>
> "Robert, I have to bring up a very sensitive issue. You're
> often accused of being a hard-hat facist in your writing,
> justifying and sympathizing with villainous hawk types."
>
> "Alfie, have you ever seen a villain in any of my stories? I don't
> really believe in villains. No man is a villain unto himself.
> Once or twice I've used cardboard villains, but that's all.
> One thing runs all through my stories. I believe in freedom.
> I believe in a man's total responsibility for his own acts. I'm
> downright reactionary about that.
>
> " Patriotism is a nice long polysyllabic abstract word of Latin
> derivation, which translates into Anglo-Saxon as Women and
> Children First. And every culture that has ever lasted is based
> on Women and Children First or it doesn't last very long. But
> there's no way to force patriotism on anyone. Passing a law
> will not create it, nor can we buy it by appropriating billions
> of dollars."
>
> At this point he actually began to break down. PW [Publishers
> Weekly I assume] could not endure the sight of a colleague on
> the verge of tears, so I changed the subject. "Forget it, Robert.
> It's the politicians who've given patriotism a bad name. Let's
> get back to science fiction. What's your definition of it?"
>
> ===
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21562
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 18:11:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Dr. Kondo article online
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT: That article was well done. I could only wish for it to reach
a wider audience.
Ed J
On Thu, 25 Jul 2002 01:28:22 GMT, JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT) wrote:
>Check out
>http://www.sfrevu.com/2002/2002-07%20Issue/-%20Cover/index.html
>
>Or just www.sfrevu.com if that doesn't work. You're looking for the
>July issue, the "Opening Space for the 21st Century" section.
>
>JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21563
From: Dee"
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 06:57:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Heinlein Page additions
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Deb wrote:
> Also added to my homepage another chapter of my historical/science
> fiction/romance novel "Of All the Western Stars".
Okay, Deb, you got me hooked. Now I need to know when the new chapters
come out.
--Dee
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21564
From: Eli Hestermann
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:59:12 -0400
Subject: Lost Legacy review
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Comments welcome. Deb, I'll email a revised version this weekend.
"Lost legacy"
Have you ever wished for superpowers? Growing up, a friend and I would
always debate which superpower to pick if we could have just one.
Strength? Speed? Mind control? Flying? In "Lost Legacy," Heinlein
imagines a world where special mental powers are available to everyone,
if only we could learn to use them. A subject of Philip Huxley, a
psychologist studying the paranormal, loses a small part of his brain
after an accident, and with it the ability to see the back sides of
objects. Huxley deduces that this part of the brain must hold the key
to the man’s abilities and further hypothesizes that the ability must be
latent in everyone. He soon trains his student, Joan Freedman, to
produce amazing mental feats and replicates the work with Ben Coburn, a
friend and coincidentally the surgeon who operated on Huxley’s subject.
The three take a road trip (during which the students train Huxley
himself) and soon find themselves in the company of others who have made
the same discovery. Then comes a sequence strikingly similar to the
"Oracle: The Dream" movement of Rush’s epic song "2112":
I see the works of gifted hands
That grace this strange and wondrous land
I see the hand of man arise
With hungry mind and open eyes
They left the planet long ago
The elder race still learn and grow
Their power grows with purpose strong
To claim the home where they belong
In dreams, the trio learn that all humans once exercised these
abilities, until a powerful minority took over and restricted their use
and their benevolent counterparts left Earth to explore. The former
group still has follower in power in several places, and Phil, Joan and
Ben have fallen in with their opponents, who want to return the powers
to everyone. The stage is set for the conflict that drives the
remainder of the story.
--
Eli V. Hestermann
Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu
"Vita brevis est, ars longa." -Seneca
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21565
From: debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek Rule)
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 19:41:44 GMT
Subject: Re: Heinlein Page additions
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
>> Also added to my homepage another chapter of my historical/science
>> fiction/romance novel "Of All the Western Stars".
>
> Okay, Deb, you got me hooked. Now I need to know when the new chapters
>come out.
Oooh... a reader! Thanks, Dee. I'm putting up one chapter per week.
Wasn't sure anyone had read all the way through yet. I get some good
comments on the short stories online (had a really good one on
"Eternal City" just a week ago) but no comments on the novel yet.
Deb (D.A. Houdek)
http://www.dahoudek.com
http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21566
From: debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek Rule)
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 19:41:44 GMT
Subject: Re: Heinlein Page additions
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
>Good Luck, Deb!
Thanks, Elizabeth.
Deb (D.A. Houdek)
http://www.dahoudek.com
http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21567
From: debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek Rule)
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 19:41:44 GMT
Subject: Re: Heinlein Page additions
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
>Good luck, Deb!
Thanks, Bytor.
Any plans on when the next of yours will come out? I'd sure like to
see #3 in print. And if #1 not in print, at least on the web so folks
can see the backstory of #2.
Deb (D.A. Houdek)
http://www.dahoudek.com
http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21568
From: Dee"
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 15:50:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Heinlein Page additions
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Deb Houdek Rule" <debrule@dahoudek.com> wrote in message
news:3d48ea51.1084701@NEWS.SFF.NET...
> Oooh... a reader! Thanks, Dee. I'm putting up one chapter per week.
Well, I knew that. ;-) What day? What day!
Consider my greed for the next chapter a comment.
--Dee
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21569
From: Michael P. Calligaro"
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 22:37:43 -0700
Subject: Re: Heinlein Page additions
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I toy with the idea occasionally. I read #3 recently and it wasn't TOO bad
(wouldn't need too much work to become fit for consumption). #1, on the
other hand, would need a "start over from a blank document" rewrite. I'm
pretty sure, though, that if I was going to publish something else in paper
form, I'd do the Daily Dose first.
On the other hand, a good friend of mine recently read IOD, and our long
discussions about it afterward had me wanting to be able to give her the
sequel. So, it'll probably happen some day. I don't suppose the publishing
industry is any less agonizingly stupid than it was a few years ago, is it?
bytor
"Deb Houdek Rule" <debrule@dahoudek.com> wrote in message
news:3d4aeb8d.1400891@NEWS.SFF.NET...
> Any plans on when the next of yours will come out? I'd sure like to
> see #3 in print. And if #1 not in print, at least on the web so folks
> can see the backstory of #2.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21570
From: debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek Rule)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:13:08 GMT
Subject: Re: Heinlein Page additions
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Bytor--
> I read #3 recently and it wasn't TOO bad
>(wouldn't need too much work to become fit for consumption).
Oh, you're just the author, what do you know? #3 is one of the best
fantasy novels I've ever read. Run it past a person or two here who's
a good critiquer and see how it goes for them. But don't rewrite it
just to rewrite it--might lose the magic.
#1, on the
>other hand, would need a "start over from a blank document" rewrite.
Gotta disagree there, too. I'll grant you that #1 is a bit rougher
than #2 or #3 but rewriting from "blank" might, again, lose the really
positive qualities it has and needs. If you rewrite, I'd be very light
about it. Don't try to start from scratch, just skim the surface and
do some tidying. Excessive rewriting can destroy a good piece of work.
I saw one guy from a past writing group take a slighly uneven but
brilliantly original story and through incessant rewriting turn it
into a smooth, perfectly written piece of sheer, unimaginative
boredom.
If #1 isn't as polished as #3 it's also a reflection of the very
characters and world structures in each--#1 is a discovery of a
developing character in a very coarse, harsh world, while #3 is the
slick techno world with smooth world-wise characters. That difference
in their very natures reflects in the writing styles of each--don't
lose that.
Deb (D.A. Houdek)
http://www.dahoudek.com
http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21571
From: debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek Rule)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:16:01 GMT
Subject: Re: Heinlein Page additions
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
> Well, I knew that. ;-) What day? What day!
>
> Consider my greed for the next chapter a comment.
Dee--
Love that 'comment'! Usually update on Wednesdays. But I have been
running the chapters up ahead of time and just adding the links
Wednesdays. In fact, the whole thing is now up online but only
properly formatted and linked through the current update (chapter 24).
But if you add a digit to the chapter number in the url you can access
each upcoming chapter.
Deb (D.A. Houdek)
http://www.dahoudek.com
http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21572
From: filksinger@earthling.net
Date: 31 Jul 2002 12:48:38 GMT
Subject: Re: Lost Legacy review
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Eli V. Hestermann wrote:
"A subject of Philip Huxley, a
psychologist studying the paranormal, loses a small part of his brain
after an accident, and with it the ability to see the back sides of
objects."
You might want to make this clearer. The last I checked, _anyone_ can see
the back sides of objects.
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21573
From: postmaster@sff.net
Date: 20 Jul 2002 07:46:52 GMT
Subject: No articles presently in newsgroup.
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
This newsgroup has no articles yet; however, if
you were to post something, it would.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21574
From: webnews@sff.net
Date: 31 Jul 2002 19:47:56 GMT
Subject: SpamGuard
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
One or more articles in this newsgroup have been cancelled by the sysops
for being spammed across multiple newsgroups, being commercial adverts,
or for violating SFF Net's Policies and Procedures.
To avoid seeing this notice in the future, set your newsreader to filter
out articles with SpamGuard in the subject.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21575
From: Michael P. Calligaro"
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 21:45:05 -0700
Subject: Re: Lost Legacy review
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Eli's saying that Huxley _lost_ the ability to see back sides...
bytor
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message news:3d47dca6.0@news.sff.net...
>>loses a small part of his brain ..., and with it the ability to see the
>>back sides of objects."
> You might want to make this clearer. The last I checked, _anyone_ can see
> the back sides of objects.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21576
From: Michael P. Calligaro"
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 22:03:55 -0700
Subject: Re: Heinlein Page additions
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Deb Houdek Rule" <debrule@dahoudek.com> wrote in message
news:3d47a719.3451762@NEWS.SFF.NET...
> Run it past a person or two here who's
> a good critiquer and see how it goes for them. But don't rewrite it
> just to rewrite it--might lose the magic.
Thanks, Deb. #3 doesn't need anything I'd call a "rewrite." Just going
over it once to clean up the prose a bit, then a thousand times to find all
the typos. Doing IOD made me realize that wirting is very similar to
developing software. You can test and test and test, and you'll still ship
with bugs. I went over IOD about 5 times online, fixing typos and things as
I went. Then I printed it on 8.5x11 and went through it again. Found all
sorts of things I'd missed before. Then I printed it again and had an
editor go through it. It came back with red on every page. So I fixed all
of that red. Then went through it again, and found more (stuff she'd
missed). Then I printed it in galley form and found even more stuff
(fortunately the amount went down each time). And, only one time did I find
something where something I fixed had caused another error. It was all just
stuff that we'd all missed. And, in the end, there are still a few typos in
the book. Godspawn needs that kind of treatment. If it didn't get it, it
would look amateurish.
> Gotta disagree there, too. I'll grant you that #1 is a bit rougher
> than #2 or #3 but rewriting from "blank" might, again, lose the really
> positive qualities it has and needs.
I understand what you're saying, but there are certain things that just
aren't qualities, no matter how you look at them. Exposition, shifting POV
willy nilly, passive voice, etc just don't cut it. I'd be embarrased to
have someone read Hell's Children now. It was the first thing I ever wrote,
and oh my goodness does it ever show. The story itself and what happens in
it are fine. It's the clumsy telling of that story that I don't like. What
I'd do if I decided to rewrite it would be to sit down, read a chapter, and
then switch to a blank sheet and write that same chapter over again. The
same stuff would happen, but it would happen in color instead of black and
white...
> If #1 isn't as polished as #3 it's also a reflection of the very
> characters and world structures in each--#1 is a discovery of a
> developing character in a very coarse, harsh world, while #3 is the
> slick techno world with smooth world-wise characters. That difference
> in their very natures reflects in the writing styles of each--don't
> lose that.
Interesting. I'll keep that in mind.
Thanks, Deb.
bytor
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21577
From: David M. Silver"
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 06:34:17 -0700
Subject: Re: Hello again
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
William J. Keaton wrote:
> "Geo Rule" <georule@civilwarstlouis.com> wrote in message
> news:jiiahu4go0nao5iqf75bcp0juuuceo99kr@4ax.com...
>
>>Fine with me; we (Deb and I) don't have (I don't think) copies of the
>>newsletters. Between us and JT or WJaKe we could probably provide a
>>copied complete set of The Galactic Citizen. We wouldn't give our
>>originals up, but we could certainly run them thru a copier.
>>
>>
>>
>
> I could provide a mix of some originals, some copies. Can I pack them with
> when I schlep out to WorldCon this year? I can provide a complete set, even
> though some of the later issues do not include much HF-related content.
>
> WJaKe
That would be great, WJake. By the way, we've a limited number of spaces
available on the special visit to the Heinlein archives at UC Santa Cruz
on Thursday (they're expecting us). Geo and Deb are already reserved for
it. Interested? Let bpral22169@aol.com know, please.
Anyone else attending ConJosé interested, please do the same. If we
overflow Thursday, we can schedule a second visit on Friday, so long as
we know soon enough to alert the archivist, Rita Bottoms, and her staff.
David
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21578
From: Gordon G. Sollars
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 10:56:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Lost Legacy review
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
In article <3d47dca6.0@news.sff.net>, filksinger@earthling.net writes...
> Eli V. Hestermann wrote:
>
> "A subject of Philip Huxley, a
> psychologist studying the paranormal, loses a small part of his brain
> after an accident, and with it the ability to see the back sides of
> objects."
>
> You might want to make this clearer. The last I checked, _anyone_ can see
> the back sides of objects.
Darn! And here I thought /I/ had a super power!
--
Gordon Sollars
gsollars@pobox.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21579
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 21:47:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Lost Legacy review
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Filksinger: IIRC from Lost Legacy; I got the impression that
'seeing the back sides of objects' occurred while standing in front
of that object. Like standing in front of a parked truck and
telling someone that you just saw a butterfly land on the rear
license plate (without the aid of mirrors or cameras, etc.) even
though it was out of sight. To see that which cannot be seen with
the unaided eye. Seeing the entire hand of your opponent in a card
game would be another example. That peculiar paranormal ability was
lost after the Doctor removes a small part to the subject's brain.
If I follow Heinlein's description, I don't know of anyone who
can see the back sides of objects in that manner. The ability to
see 'around the corner' so to speak, would be a very useful talent,
IMHO.
Ed J (2 cents worth)
On 31 Jul 2002 12:48:38 GMT, filksinger@earthling.net wrote:
>Eli V. Hestermann wrote:
>
>"A subject of Philip Huxley, a
>psychologist studying the paranormal, loses a small part of his brain
>after an accident, and with it the ability to see the back sides of
>objects."
>
>You might want to make this clearer. The last I checked, _anyone_ can see
>the back sides of objects.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21580
From: Gordon G. Sollars
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 23:25:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Lost Legacy review
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
In article <9fojkuchsa7r3a0s5bahanfe3p696idqe9@4ax.com>, Ed Johnson
writes...
> Filksinger: IIRC from Lost Legacy; I got the impression that
> 'seeing the back sides of objects' occurred while standing in front
> of that object. Like standing in front of a parked truck and
> telling someone that you just saw a butterfly land on the rear
> license plate (without the aid of mirrors or cameras, etc.) even
> though it was out of sight. To see that which cannot be seen with
> the unaided eye. Seeing the entire hand of your opponent in a card
> game would be another example. That peculiar paranormal ability was
> lost after the Doctor removes a small part to the subject's brain.
> If I follow Heinlein's description, I don't know of anyone who
> can see the back sides of objects in that manner. The ability to
> see 'around the corner' so to speak, would be a very useful talent,
> IMHO.
Yes, but Filk's point is that the one-line description in the review is
insufficient to make all of this clear. It might be better to simply say
that the person lost a psychic power; explaining the details slows up the
review for no compelling reason.
--
Gordon Sollars
gsollars@pobox.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21581
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 00:38:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Lost Legacy review
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Gordon:
Sounds good that way: "lost a psychic power". Brevity and clarity.
Ed J
On Thu, 1 Aug 2002 23:25:27 -0400, Gordon G. Sollars <gs
>
>Yes, but Filk's point is that the one-line description in the review is
>insufficient to make all of this clear. It might be better to simply say
>that the person lost a psychic power; explaining the details slows up the
>review for no compelling reason.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21582
From: David Wright"
Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 08:41:56 -0400
Subject: Review of Citizen of the Galaxy
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C23AC9.A007D2E0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Here is my latest attempt at a story review for Deb Rule's Web Page.
I will be pleased to hear your comments and criticisms.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Citizen of The Galaxy
=A9 1957 Charles Scribner=92s Sons, New York, NY
"Losian to Finster, Finster to Thoth IV, Thoth IV to Woolamurra, Sisu =
went skipping around a globe of space nine hundred light-years in =
diameter, the center of which was legendary Terra, cradle of mankind".
Thorby, an orphan shipped in as a slave, is bought and adopted by a =
one-eyed, one legged beggar on the planet Jubbul.=20
"Technically, Thorby was not part of the underworld, since he had a =
legally recognized status (slave) and a licensed profession (beggar). =
Nevertheless, he was in it with a worm=92s eye view. There were no rungs =
below his on the social ladder."
Thorby could easily have become just another low criminal, but his =
adopted father, Baslim the Cripple, refuses to let this happen. He =
teaches Thorby to read, and forces him to expand his horizons beyond the =
narrow world of Jubbulpore. Baslim is more than he appears to be and is =
finally arrested and executed by the Sargon=92s government, but not =
before making arrangements for Thorby to leave the planet.
After Baslim=92s death, Thorby is smuggled off Jubbul and returns to =
space aboard the Free Trader ship Sisu. Because of a special =
relationship between the captain of the ship and Baslim, the captain =
adopts him and he becomes a member of one of the clans of nomadic space =
travelers called "The People".
"The People are free; this old Galaxy has never seen such freedom. A =
culture of less than a hundred thousand people spread through a quarter =
of a billion cubic light-years and utterly free to move anywhere at any =
time."
Slowly adjusting to the life aboard the ship and among The People, he =
moves from the status of a fraki, or outsider, to becoming a valuable =
crewman, responsible with others for protecting Sisu from being captured =
and enslaved by pirates.
He also learns more about Baslim and his status among the People, but =
with this knowledge come even more unanswered questions.
Finally as the ship arrives at a Gathering of all of the clans, Thorby =
learns that his life aboard Sisu is only a temporary stop on the way to =
finding out where he came from, where his real family is and who and =
what Baslim really was. Captain Krausa, his adopted father, following =
Baslim=92s instructions, gives Thorby over to the captain of Guard Ship =
Hydra.
Having gone through three major upheavals in his life, captured into =
slavery, sold to Baslim and moving to Sisu after Baslim=92s death, =
Thorby again is uprooted. He enlists in the Guard , which is "mailman" =
and "policeman" of that part of explored space. As a crew member of =
Hydra, he again must struggle to find a place for himself. He finally =
learns just who and what Baslim really was.=20
But this life too is short-lived and he must leave Hydra and the Guard =
and enter into the most confusing of all of these different worlds, =
Earth, legendary Terra, capitol planet of The Terran Hegemony. On Earth =
he finally discovers his roots and his real family. However, as before, =
he finds that here too, he must struggle to make his place and face the =
problems that comes with this life, using all of the experience, =
knowledge and wisdom that he has gained from Baslim and others who have =
influenced him.
I recall a critic complaining of this work that Heinlein switched =
Thorby=92s worlds too fast to make this a good novel by not filling out =
more detail on each of Thorby=92s various worlds. I thoroughly disagree. =
I found that the worlds were richly formed and sufficient in contrast =
and similarity to fully support Thorby=92s experiences and most =
importantly to give the reader a strong sense of =91being there=92.
Readers of Kipling may find the plot reminiscent of his novel Kim. This =
is not surprising as Heinlein was a great fan of Kipling=92s and there =
are many references that tie this work to Kim. In Volume 6 of The =
Heinlein Journal, Jane Davitt has written an excellent article dealing =
with these and other references in Heinlein=92s works to those of =
Kipling=92s.
------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C23AC9.A007D2E0
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<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial>Here is my latest attempt at a story =
review for=20
Deb Rule's Web Page.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial>I will be pleased to hear your comments =
and=20
criticisms.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT=20
face=3DArial>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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=3D=3D</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2>
<P align=3Dcenter>Citizen of The Galaxy</P>
<P align=3Dcenter>=A9 1957 Charles Scribner=92s Sons, New York, NY</P>
<P align=3Dcenter></P>
<DIR>
<DIR>
<P>"Losian to Finster, Finster to Thoth IV, Thoth IV to Woolamurra, =
<I>Sisu</I>=20
went skipping around a globe of space nine hundred light-years in =
diameter, the=20
center of which was legendary Terra, cradle of mankind".</P></DIR></DIR>
<P>Thorby, an orphan shipped in as a slave, is bought and adopted by a =
one-eyed,=20
one legged beggar on the planet Jubbul. </P>
<DIR>
<DIR>
<P>"Technically, Thorby was not part of the underworld, since he had a =
legally=20
recognized status (slave) and a licensed profession (beggar). =
Nevertheless, he=20
was in it with a worm=92s eye view. There were no rungs below his on the =
social=20
ladder."</P></DIR></DIR>
<P>Thorby could easily have become just another low criminal, but his =
adopted=20
father, Baslim the Cripple, refuses to let this happen. He teaches =
Thorby to=20
read, and forces him to expand his horizons beyond the narrow world of=20
Jubbulpore. Baslim is more than he appears to be and is finally arrested =
and=20
executed by the Sargon=92s government, but not before making =
arrangements for=20
Thorby to leave the planet.</P>
<P>After Baslim=92s death, Thorby is smuggled off Jubbul and returns to =
space=20
aboard the Free Trader ship <I>Sisu.</I> Because of a special =
relationship=20
between the captain of the ship and Baslim, the captain adopts him and =
he=20
becomes a member of one of the clans of nomadic space travelers called =
"The=20
People".</P>
<DIR>
<DIR>
<P>"The People are free; this old Galaxy has never seen such freedom. A =
culture=20
of less than a hundred thousand people spread through a quarter of a =
billion=20
cubic light-years and utterly free to move anywhere at any=20
time."</P></DIR></DIR>
<P>Slowly adjusting to the life aboard the ship and among The People, he =
moves=20
from the status of a <I>fraki</I>, or outsider, to becoming a valuable =
crewman,=20
responsible with others for protecting <I>Sisu</I> from being captured =
and=20
enslaved by pirates.</P>
<P>He also learns more about Baslim and his status among the People, but =
with=20
this knowledge come even more unanswered questions.</P>
<P>Finally as the ship arrives at a Gathering of all of the clans, =
Thorby learns=20
that his life aboard Sisu is only a temporary stop on the way to finding =
out=20
where he came from, where his real family is and who and what Baslim =
really was.=20
Captain Krausa, his adopted father, following Baslim=92s instructions, =
gives=20
Thorby over to the captain of Guard Ship <I>Hydra</I>.</P>
<P>Having gone through three major upheavals in his life, captured into =
slavery,=20
sold to Baslim and moving to <I>Sisu</I> after Baslim=92s death, Thorby =
again is=20
uprooted. He enlists in the Guard , which is "mailman" and "policeman" =
of that=20
part of explored space. As a crew member of <I>Hydra, </I>he again must =
struggle=20
to find a place for himself. He finally learns just who and what Baslim =
really=20
was. </P>
<P>But this life too is short-lived and he must leave <I>Hydra </I>and =
the Guard=20
and enter into the most confusing of all of these different worlds, =
Earth,=20
legendary Terra, capitol planet of The Terran Hegemony. On Earth he =
finally=20
discovers his roots and his real family. However, as before, he finds =
that here=20
too, he must struggle to make his place and face the problems that comes =
with=20
this life, using all of the experience, knowledge and wisdom that he has =
gained=20
from Baslim and others who have influenced him.</P>
<P>I recall a critic complaining of this work that Heinlein switched =
Thorby=92s=20
worlds too fast to make this a good novel by not filling out more detail =
on each=20
of Thorby=92s various worlds. I thoroughly disagree. I found that the =
worlds were=20
richly formed and sufficient in contrast and similarity to fully support =
Thorby=92s experiences and most importantly to give the reader a strong =
sense of=20
=91being there=92.</P>
<P>Readers of Kipling may find the plot reminiscent of his novel =
<I>Kim</I>.=20
This is not surprising as Heinlein was a great fan of Kipling=92s and =
there are=20
many references that tie this work to <I>Kim</I>. In Volume 6 of The =
Heinlein=20
Journal, Jane Davitt has written an excellent article dealing with these =
and=20
other references in Heinlein=92s works to those of Kipling=92s.</P>
<P><FONT =
size=3D3></FONT> </P></FONT></FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C23AC9.A007D2E0--
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21583
From: Geo Rule
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 17:10:00 -0700
Subject: Re: Review of Citizen of the Galaxy
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Nice. On any given day, if you ask me my five favorite Heinlein's,
"Citizen" would as likely as not be on the top of the list. Just
depends on the mood I'm in, and which I've read most recently.<g>
On Sat, 3 Aug 2002 08:41:56 -0400, "David Wright"
<dwrighsr@alltel.net> wrote:
>Here is my latest attempt at a story review for Deb Rule's Web Page.
>I will be pleased to hear your comments and criticisms.
>
>========================================================================
>Citizen of The Galaxy
>
>© 1957 Charles Scribner’s Sons, New York, NY
>
>
>"Losian to Finster, Finster to Thoth IV, Thoth IV to Woolamurra, Sisu went skipping around a globe of space nine hundred light-years in diameter, the center of which was legendary Terra, cradle of mankind".
>
>Thorby, an orphan shipped in as a slave, is bought and adopted by a one-eyed, one legged beggar on the planet Jubbul.
>
>"Technically, Thorby was not part of the underworld, since he had a legally recognized status (slave) and a licensed profession (beggar). Nevertheless, he was in it with a worm’s eye view. There were no rungs below his on the social ladder."
>
>Thorby could easily have become just another low criminal, but his adopted father, Baslim the Cripple, refuses to let this happen. He teaches Thorby to read, and forces him to expand his horizons beyond the narrow world of Jubbulpore. Baslim is more than he appears to be and is finally arrested and executed by the Sargon’s government, but not before making arrangements for Thorby to leave the planet.
>
>After Baslim’s death, Thorby is smuggled off Jubbul and returns to space aboard the Free Trader ship Sisu. Because of a special relationship between the captain of the ship and Baslim, the captain adopts him and he becomes a member of one of the clans of nomadic space travelers called "The People".
>
>"The People are free; this old Galaxy has never seen such freedom. A culture of less than a hundred thousand people spread through a quarter of a billion cubic light-years and utterly free to move anywhere at any time."
>
>Slowly adjusting to the life aboard the ship and among The People, he moves from the status of a fraki, or outsider, to becoming a valuable crewman, responsible with others for protecting Sisu from being captured and enslaved by pirates.
>
>He also learns more about Baslim and his status among the People, but with this knowledge come even more unanswered questions.
>
>Finally as the ship arrives at a Gathering of all of the clans, Thorby learns that his life aboard Sisu is only a temporary stop on the way to finding out where he came from, where his real family is and who and what Baslim really was. Captain Krausa, his adopted father, following Baslim’s instructions, gives Thorby over to the captain of Guard Ship Hydra.
>
>Having gone through three major upheavals in his life, captured into slavery, sold to Baslim and moving to Sisu after Baslim’s death, Thorby again is uprooted. He enlists in the Guard , which is "mailman" and "policeman" of that part of explored space. As a crew member of Hydra, he again must struggle to find a place for himself. He finally learns just who and what Baslim really was.
>
>But this life too is short-lived and he must leave Hydra and the Guard and enter into the most confusing of all of these different worlds, Earth, legendary Terra, capitol planet of The Terran Hegemony. On Earth he finally discovers his roots and his real family. However, as before, he finds that here too, he must struggle to make his place and face the problems that comes with this life, using all of the experience, knowledge and wisdom that he has gained from Baslim and others who have influenced him.
>
>I recall a critic complaining of this work that Heinlein switched Thorby’s worlds too fast to make this a good novel by not filling out more detail on each of Thorby’s various worlds. I thoroughly disagree. I found that the worlds were richly formed and sufficient in contrast and similarity to fully support Thorby’s experiences and most importantly to give the reader a strong sense of ‘being there’.
>
>Readers of Kipling may find the plot reminiscent of his novel Kim. This is not surprising as Heinlein was a great fan of Kipling’s and there are many references that tie this work to Kim. In Volume 6 of The Heinlein Journal, Jane Davitt has written an excellent article dealing with these and other references in Heinlein’s works to those of Kipling’s.
>
>
Geo Rule
www.civilwarstlouis.com
****
Specializing in the Confederate Secret Service,
the Sultana, Gratiot St. Prison,
Jesse James & Friends, Copperheads,
the Northwest Conspiracy, and the Damn Dutch.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21584
From: David Wright"
Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 21:09:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Review of Citizen of the Galaxy
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Geo Rule" <georule@civilwarstlouis.com> wrote in message
news:63soku4njohlbemg4r885ldrt2vt58o6sv@4ax.com...
>
> Nice. On any given day, if you ask me my five favorite Heinlein's,
> "Citizen" would as likely as not be on the top of the list. Just
> depends on the mood I'm in, and which I've read most recently.<g>
>
Thanks. It's one of my favorites, too. OTOH, there aren't many that aren't
my favorite. :)
David
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21585
From: Catherine Hampton
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 20:49:51 -0700
Subject: Re: Review of Citizen of the Galaxy
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Sat, 03 Aug 2002 17:10:00 -0700, Geo Rule
<georule@civilwarstlouis.com> wrote:
>Nice. On any given day, if you ask me my five favorite Heinlein's,
>"Citizen" would as likely as not be on the top of the list. Just
>depends on the mood I'm in, and which I've read most recently.<g>
It would rank as one of a pool of favorites of mine, beneath "The Moon
is a Harsh Mistress" (my absolute favorite), and "Time Enough for
Love", a rather close second. ;>
--
Ariel (aka Catherine Hampton) <ariel@tempest.boxmail.com>
===========================================================
Home Page * <http://www.devsite.org/>
Human Rights Web * <http://www.hrweb.org/>
The SpamBouncer * <http://www.spambouncer.org/>
(Please use this address for replies -- the address in my header is a
spam trap.)
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21586
From: Gordon G. Sollars
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 17:04:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Review of Citizen of the Galaxy
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
In article <3d4bcf98.0@news.sff.net>, David Wright writes...
> Here is my latest attempt at a story review for Deb Rule's Web Page.
> I will be pleased to hear your comments and criticisms.
CotG is one of my top favorites, and the first story by Mr. Heinlein that
I read. Imagine if it had been made into a movie instead of "Star Wars".
Good review, David. I would have liked to have done this one myself, but
I doubt I could have done better.
--
Gordon Sollars
gsollars@pobox.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21587
From: David Wright"
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 19:33:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Review of Citizen of the Galaxy
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Gordon G. Sollars" <gsollars@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.17b760d1164e98339897f8@news.sff.net...
> In article <3d4bcf98.0@news.sff.net>, David Wright writes...
> > Here is my latest attempt at a story review for Deb Rule's Web Page.
> > I will be pleased to hear your comments and criticisms.
>
> CotG is one of my top favorites, and the first story by Mr. Heinlein that
> I read. Imagine if it had been made into a movie instead of "Star Wars".
>
> Good review, David. I would have liked to have done this one myself, but
> I doubt I could have done better.
>
Thank you muchly.
I really should have gotten the ok from Deb before doing this, but I just
found myself with a solitary hour and it sort of slipped out. Actually, the
version you saw was an expanded one of the original. Deb suggested that it
was too short, so I fleshed it out.
I was unhappy about having to put so much spoiler material in the time
travel ones, but I still can't see how I could have done them without it.
Here, at least, I was able to put in teasers without actually giving away
the baby with the bathwater. (Hmm, that doesn't sound quite right).
I wish that I could have come up with the time and place of that review I
mentioned, but it has been 45 years or so and that memory has been overlaid
long ago. If anyone knows of it, I would be delighted to hear about it. I
suspect that it was in Astounding as that was where it was serialized
(9-12,57 according to Gifford).
David
------------------------------------------------------------
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