Archive of:   sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Archive desc: The Internet home for the Heinlein Forum
Archived by:  webnews@sff.net
Archive date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 07:57:35
============================================================

Article 22030
From: Michael P. Calligaro" 
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 15:53:07 -0800
Subject: Re: ST:Nemesis
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


"Deb Houdek Rule" <debrule@dahoudek.com> wrote in message
news:3dfe28ad.1483493@NEWS.SFF.NET...
>
> >spoiler alert....
> >
> >.
> >.
> >.
> >.
> >.
> >.
> >.
> >.
> >.
> >.
> >.
> >.
> >.
> >.
> >.
> >.
> >
> >
> >What annoyed *me* no end was that they went to such great lengths
> >explaining the Neman's sensitivity to light, and then they did nothing
> >to use that information to their tactical advantage when they boarded
> >the Enterprise. At least give the goblins some sunglasses, or have Riker
> >shout "Computer! Lights: maximum!"
>

Star Trek is an interesting beast.  The world a few centuries from now would
be COMPLETELY incomprehensible to any human on the planet.  So they simply
can't be accurate and need to pepper the thing with stuff we know and
understand.  So you get ships banking in space.  World war II dogfights are
MUCH more fun to watch than modern ones, so these ships fight like it's
WWII.

Ships with sensors that can detect a faint positronic signature a few light
years away, but can't figure out where a torpedo is coming from and shoot
back?  It's important to the plot.  Yes, a real live modern naval vessal
will destroy the thing that shot at it, BEFORE the first shell arrives, and
the grand total of human involvement is turning the weapons systems on.  But
how much fun is a it to watch a space battle where two ships show up near
each other and one just goes "poof"?

Boarding parties?  On a ship with site to site transports?  Why not just
beam them into space?  Because a phaser fight is much more fun to watch
than, "Captain, they tried to board us, but the computer automatically
beamed them into a nearby star."  Besides, we needed a hand to hand for
Riker to be able to defend Troi's dignity (though I thought she did a better
job of that on her own).

As far as I'm concerned, Star Trek has nothing whatsoever to do with our
future.  It's some other universe where, for whatever reason, tactics and
weapons systems never advanced even as much as they have here and now.  It's
fantasy more than science fiction, but, hey, I like both genres, so that
doesn't bother me.  So, taking it for what it is, I enjoyed it.

Two things DID annoy me, though.

<big spoiler>
I knew someone was going to die.  The whole "final voyage" thing on the
movie posters gave that away.  So when Riker was fighting the goblin guy I
started thinking, "Oh my goodness, it's going to be Riker!"  Wow, the
emotional trauma that would cause, with them having just been married.
Would have been a very gutsy thing to do.  But, a second later I thought,
"Oh wait, they downloaded data's memory.  That means it's going to be him."
Sucked most of the tension out of the scene.  Too bad it was so predictable.
(Had I been thinking at all about the impending doom of a crewmate, I'd have
realized it the instant they downloaded Data's memory.)

The other thing that annoyed me was that I thougth the goblin should have
shot himself in the head when Troi was using him.  He knew they were in
trouble and knew he was the cause of that trouble.  Someone that fanatical
would have blown his head off to protect the ship.  Would probably have also
done nasty things to Troi (having the person you're linked to die suddenly
would be bad for the head...)

bytor



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22031
From: George H Cardozo 
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 02:33:44 -0500
Subject: A Christmas Recipe
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Hey All,

Here's a recipe for you.

Enjoy, Carol
=======

Tequila Christmas Cake

1 cup of water
1 tsp baking soda
1 cup of sugar
1 tsp salt
1 cup of brown sugar
Lemon juice
4 large eggs
Nuts
1 bottle tequila
2 cups of dried fruit

Sample the tequila to check quality.  Take a large bowl, check the
tequila again.  To be sure it is of the highest quality, pour one
level cup and drink.  Repeat.  Turn on the electric mixer.  Beat one
cup of butter in a large fluffy bowl.  Add one teaspoon of sugar.
Beat again.  At this point it's best to make sure the tequila is still
OK.  Try another cup...  just in case.  Turn off the mixerer thingy.
Break 2 leggs and add to the bowl and chuck in the cup of dried fruit.
Pick the frigging fruit up off floor.  Mix on the turner.  If the
fried druit gets stuck in the beaterers just pry it loose with a
drewscriver.  Sample the tequila to check for tonsisticity.  Next,
sift two cups of salt.  Or something.  Check the tequila.  Now shift
the lemon juice and strain your nuts.  Add one table.  Add a spoon of
sugar, or somefink.  Whatever you can find.  Greash the oven.  Turn
the cake tin 360 degrees and try not to fall over.  Don't forget to
beat off the turner.  Finally, throw the bowl through the window.
Finish the tequila and wipe counter with the cat.  CHERRY MISTMAS!

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22032
From: Michael P. Calligaro" 
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 13:34:53 -0800
Subject: Re: Are we losing it?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

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Since most living behavior is controlled (or at least strongly =
influenced) by Homeostasis, it's useful to think about this in those =
terms.

Consider a sapling in the middle of a yard with plenty of sunlight.  Now =
you build a gazebo next to it, and the gazebo blocks most of the light =
on one side of the sapling.  Over time, the tree will grow sideways to =
get out of the shade.  Now, when it does this you add on to the gazebo =
and block its light again.  The tree will continue to grow sideways to =
get to the light.  But, just to be cruel, you now block its light some =
more.  So it grows even more sideways.  Now, ten years later, you decide =
you don't like the gazebo and tear it down.  Does the tree stand up =
straight?  No, it stays bent and twisted from the years of trying to get =
away from your shady gazebo.  You can often find very old trees with =
branches that go off at bizarre angles because, 50 years ago, they had =
to contort themselves to survive.  Now, that's all they know, so they =
stay that way.

Now consider a different sapling in a different yard.  There's no gazebo =
here, but there is a gale force wind blowing through.  The wind is =
intense and has bent the tree over just as much as the previous one.  =
But it only blows through the night.  The next morning, when it relents, =
the tree springs back up.  It may not stand quite as straight as before, =
but give it a few days and it'll be none the worse for wear.


9/11 was a gale force wind.  And the people of the world are bending in =
the face of it.  I, a person who once worked on the PGP source base =
despite the government's attempts to squash everyone who did, was GLAD =
to see national guardsmen with machine guns in the airports, and was =
happy to wait in extremely long security lines.  In a storm you bend or =
you snap.  It's much better to bend.

What remains to be seen is how long this wind will last.  If we're =
attacked again, and then again, and then again, the situation will be =
much more like the gazebo example.  But the longer we go without another =
attack the less likely we'll put up with these freedom for security =
tradeoffs.  It's already happening.  Very few people, myself included, =
are willing to put up with a 2 hour security checkpoint at the airport =
anymore.  And the checkpoints aren't that long as a result. =20

Sadly, what this really means is that our freedom is in the hands of a =
bunch of terrorists.  But what it ALSO means is that it's in the hands =
of a bunch of government agencies whose job it is to protect us.  And =
that's kind of cool.  If the FBI and the CIA are off stopping terrorists =
instead of Randy Weavers, then everyone is better off.  And if, as a =
result, we start getting (and appreciating) the government we're paying =
for, then it's a very good thing. =20

So, in general, I have reservations, but not full fledged doubts about =
the current situation.  I don't believe that what we've seen so far will =
really last.  Not without more shade to keep us down.  But I am =
concerned that the shade could be provided by the organizations that =
started the winds in the first place.  It remains to be seen.

bytor
  "Charles Graft" <chasgraft@aol.com> wrote in message =
news:3E01BD2E.2ADBD239@aol.com...
  From Joseph Sobran 12/3/2002=20
       And what will the war mean for ordinary Americans?  We are =
already seeing sharp changes in our way of life as "national security" =
trumps customary freedoms. American businesses, embassies, and tourists =
will face increasing danger all over the world. At home, the power of =
the state will expand, perhaps to totalitarian dimensions. Limited =
government will=20
  become an ever more distant memory.=20
       Not that most Americans will mind. In fact, many of them are =
already clamoring for government powers to defeat terrorism They believe =
in curtailing freedom in order to defend it. The government can count on =
plenty of support for harsh and unconstitutional measures.=20
  ---------------------------------------------------------=20

      Well, people? True or false? Something to worry about, take action =
against, or simply ignore?=20

      My take on it. As long as terrorism is the excuse for government =
expansion, the problem will never be solved.=20
  --=20
  <<Big Charlie>>=20

  "Democracy is a form of worship.  It is the worship of jackals by =
jackasses." --  H. L. Menken=20
   =20


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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Since most living behavior is =
controlled (or at=20
least strongly influenced) by Homeostasis, it's useful to think about =
this in=20
those terms.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Consider a sapling in the middle of a =
yard with=20
plenty of sunlight.  Now you build a gazebo next to it, and the =
gazebo=20
blocks most of the light on one side of the sapling.  Over time, =
the tree=20
will grow sideways to get out of the shade.  Now, when it does this =
you add=20
on to the gazebo and block its light again.  The tree will continue =
to grow=20
sideways to get to the light.  But, just to be cruel, you now block =
its=20
light some more.  So it grows even more sideways.  Now, ten =
years=20
later, you decide you don't like the gazebo and tear it down.  Does =
the=20
tree stand up straight?  No, it stays bent and twisted from the =
years of=20
trying to get away from your shady gazebo.  You can often find very =
old=20
trees with branches that go off at bizarre angles because, 50 years ago, =
they=20
had to contort themselves to survive.  Now, that's all they know, =
so they=20
stay that way.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Now consider a different sapling in a =
different=20
yard.  There's no gazebo here, but there is a gale force wind =
blowing=20
through.  The wind is intense and has bent the tree over just as =
much as=20
the previous one.  But it only blows through the night.  The =
next=20
morning, when it relents, the tree springs back up.  It may not =
stand quite=20
as straight as before, but give it a few days and it'll be none the =
worse for=20
wear.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>9/11 was a gale force wind.  And =
the people of=20
the world are bending in the face of it.  I, a person who once =
worked on=20
the PGP source base despite the government's attempts to squash everyone =
who=20
did, was GLAD to see national guardsmen with machine guns in the =
airports, and=20
was happy to wait in extremely long security lines.  In a storm you =
bend or=20
you snap.  It's much better to bend.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What remains to be seen is how long =
this wind will=20
last.  If we're attacked again, and then again, and then again, the =

situation will be much more like the gazebo example.  But the =
longer we go=20
without another attack the less likely we'll put up with these freedom =
for=20
security tradeoffs.  It's already happening.  Very few people, =
myself=20
included, are willing to put up with a 2 hour security checkpoint at the =
airport=20
anymore.  And the checkpoints aren't that long as a result. =20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sadly, what this really means is that =
our freedom=20
is in the hands of a bunch of terrorists.  But what it ALSO means =
is that=20
it's in the hands of a bunch of government agencies whose job it is to =
protect=20
us.  And that's kind of cool.  If the FBI and the CIA are off =
stopping=20
terrorists instead of Randy Weavers, then everyone is better off.  =
And if,=20
as a result, we start getting (and appreciating) the government we're =
paying=20
for, then it's a very good thing.  </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So, in general, I have reservations, =
but not full=20
fledged doubts about the current situation.  I don't believe that =
what=20
we've seen so far will really last.  Not without more shade to keep =
us=20
down.  But I am concerned that the shade could be provided by the=20
organizations that started the winds in the first place.  It =
remains to be=20
seen.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>bytor</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"Charles Graft" <<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:chasgraft@aol.com">chasgraft@aol.com</A>> wrote in =
message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:3E01BD2E.2ADBD239@aol.com">news:3E01BD2E.2ADBD239@aol.com</A=
>...</DIV>From=20
  Joseph Sobran 12/3/2002=20
  <P><I>     And what will the war mean for ordinary =

  Americans?  We are already seeing sharp changes in our way of =
life as=20
  "national security" trumps customary freedoms. American businesses, =
embassies,=20
  and tourists will face increasing danger all over the world. At home, =
the=20
  power of the state will expand, perhaps to totalitarian dimensions. =
Limited=20
  government will</I> <BR><I>become an ever more distant memory.</I>=20
  <BR><I>     Not that most Americans will mind. In =
fact,=20
  many of them are already clamoring for government powers to defeat =
terrorism=20
  They believe in curtailing freedom in order to defend it. The =
government can=20
  count on plenty of support for harsh and unconstitutional =
measures.</I>=20
  <BR>---------------------------------------------------------=20
  <P>    Well, people? True or false? Something to worry =
about,=20
  take action against, or simply ignore?=20
  <P>    My take on it. As long as terrorism is the =
excuse for=20
  government expansion, the problem will never be solved. <BR>-- =
<BR><<Big=20
  Charlie>>=20
  <P>"Democracy is a form of worship.  It is the worship of jackals =
by=20
  jackasses." --  H. L. Menken <BR>  =
</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22033
From: fader555@aol.com (Fader)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 06:22:24 GMT
Subject: Merry Christmas
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Well we seem to have a White Christmas after all, 5" in Indy & looking
outside it doesn't seem like it's letting up much, prediction is for
6-8". Everybody travel safely to Grandma's please, & if you're driving
don't make Carol's cake till you get home.<G>

Merry Christmas to all

Fader

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22034
From: Gordon G. Sollars 
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 22:59:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Are we losing it?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

In article <3e08d2eb.0@news.sff.net>, bytor@mystikeep.com says...
> Since most living behavior is controlled (or at least strongly influenced) by Homeostasis, it's useful to think about this in those terms.
> 
> Consider a sapling in the middle of a yard with plenty of sunlight.  Now you build a gazebo next to it, and the gazebo blocks most of the light on one side of the sapling.  Over time, the tree will grow sideways to get out of the shade.  Now, when it does this you add on to the gazebo and block its light again.  The tree will continue to grow sideways to get to the light.  But, just to be cruel, you now block its light some more.  So it grows even more sideways.  Now, 
ten years later, you decide you don't like the gazebo and tear it down.  Does the tree stand up straight?  No, it stays bent and twisted from the years of trying to get away from your shady gazebo.  You can often find very old trees with branches that go off at bizarre angles because, 50 years ago, they had to contort themselves to survive.  Now, that's all they know, so they stay that way.
> 
> Now consider a different sapling in a different yard.  There's no gazebo here, but there is a gale force wind blowing through.  The wind is intense and has bent the tree over just as much as the previous one.  But it only blows through the night.  The next morning, when it relents, the tree springs back up.  It may not stand quite as straight as before, but give it a few days and it'll be none the worse for wear.
> 
> 
> 9/11 was a gale force wind.  And the people of the world are bending in the face of it.  I, a person who once worked on the PGP source base despite the government's attempts to squash everyone who did, was GLAD to see national guardsmen with machine guns in the airports, and was happy to wait in extremely long security lines.

I am surprised that this made you feel any safer, bytor.  It did not 
have that effect on me.  If Al Qida had had the resources to have 
several suicide teams in place, I don't see how national guardsmen in 
the airports would have stopped them.  We were lucky.

My wife was a UAL pilot after 9/11 for a month before the first round of 
layoffs.  During this time, airport security wasted a good deal of her 
time to make sure that she did not have any sharp metal object in her 
possession.  This, of course, kept her from being able to take over the 
plane and crash it.

> What remains to be seen is how long this wind will last.  If we're attacked again, and then again, and then again, the situation will be much more like the gazebo example.  But the longer we go without another attack the less likely we'll put up with these freedom for security tradeoffs.  It's already happening.  Very few people, myself included, are willing to put up with a 2 hour security checkpoint at the airport anymore.  And the checkpoints aren't that long as a 
result.

Partially because people are traveling less by air.  When a short flight 
becomes longer than a car drive because of the time it takes to get on 
the plane, more people start driving.  But the precious time of our 
short lives is still being wasted, one way or the other.

BTW, let's see how well the waiting lines are managed when the mandated 
explosives screening kicks (1 Jan 2003?) without the automatic scanners 
being in place.   
> 
> Sadly, what this really means is that our freedom is in the hands of a bunch of terrorists.  But what it ALSO means is that it's in the hands of a bunch of government agencies whose job it is to protect us.  And that's kind of cool.  If the FBI and the CIA are off stopping terrorists instead of Randy Weavers, then everyone is better off.  And if, as a result, we start getting (and appreciating) the government we're paying for, then it's a very good thing.

Here is my model for the situation, bytor, and why I disagree with you.  
Whenever you have a test, you get false positives and false negatives.  
It is easy to show mathematically that when almost no person in the 
population is in fact a terrorist that almost all of your positives will 
be false positives.  Testing in such an environment is just a waste.

Our freedom is in the hands of terrorists because our government cannot 
allow it to appear that it is not in control of the situation.   If you 
like biological models, I'll give you another.  Government wants to 
survive, and to do so it must create in it subjects the idea that it is 
working and is important.  Violating the rights of its citizens, not to 
mention innocent third parties, is a secondary concern.  Further, a 
distributed, networked enemy /cannot/ be successfully fought by a 
centralized power without those rights being sacrificed.       
 
-- 
Gordon Sollars
gsollars@pobox.com

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22035
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 02:21:01 GMT
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On Wed, 25 Dec 2002 06:22:24 GMT, fader555@aol.com (Fader) wrote:

>Well we seem to have a White Christmas after all, 5" in Indy & looking
>outside it doesn't seem like it's letting up much, prediction is for
>6-8". 

Pretty quiet online, eh?  We just got back after way too many hours in
the car.  Poughkeepsie area had about 9 inches of snow, with a lot of
freezing rain before that.  My in-laws had guests that couldn't come
to dinner, but at least they were safe at home.

Of course, I didn't enjoy the shoveling.  Thankfully, my father-in-law
has a good snowblower so it wasn't as bad as it could have been.

Then we go to my family and find out that three people have a stomach
flu.  We only stayed yesterday and then came home today. If I'm gonna
be laid up I want to do it in my own bed. ;(

All of you with little kids, I have four little words for you: DVD in
the car.  We got one after a hellish Thanksgiving trip, and the
difference was impressive.  Worth every penny (and it was a lot of
pennies).

JT

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22036
From: Ed Johnson 
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 04:22:51 -0500
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

JT:   I missed seeing the snow that fell in NJ on Christmas day.  I
was in subtropical Texas for the holidays.  (Sub:  it went down to
22 degrees one night.  Dallas is hardly tropical)
   I have a friend who moved from Dunkirk Maryland to Canton, NY
last month.  I wonder how much snow they got on the Canadian border.
How much of the white stuff did you get at home?

Ed 

On Sat, 28 Dec 2002 02:21:01 GMT, JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT) wrote:

>On Wed, 25 Dec 2002 06:22:24 GMT, fader555@aol.com (Fader) wrote:
>
>>Well we seem to have a White Christmas after all, 5" in Indy & looking
>>outside it doesn't seem like it's letting up much, prediction is for
>>6-8". 
>
>Pretty quiet online, eh?  We just got back after way too many hours in
>the car.  Poughkeepsie area had about 9 inches of snow, with a lot of
>freezing rain before that.  My in-laws had guests that couldn't come
>to dinner, but at least they were safe at home.
>
>Of course, I didn't enjoy the shoveling.  Thankfully, my father-in-law
>has a good snowblower so it wasn't as bad as it could have been.
>
>Then we go to my family and find out that three people have a stomach
>flu.  We only stayed yesterday and then came home today. If I'm gonna
>be laid up I want to do it in my own bed. ;(
>
>All of you with little kids, I have four little words for you: DVD in
>the car.  We got one after a hellish Thanksgiving trip, and the
>difference was impressive.  Worth every penny (and it was a lot of
>pennies).
>
>JT


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22037
From: Charles Graft 
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 07:35:27 -0500
Subject: Re: Coincidence?  Nah.
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Eli--
     Cussler actually pre-dates Clancy by quite a few years.

--
<<Big Charlie>>

"Democracy is a form of worship.  It is the worship of jackals by
jackasses." --  H. L. Menken



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22038
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 17:50:47 GMT
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On Sat, 28 Dec 2002 04:22:51 -0500, Ed Johnson
<eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote:

>   I have a friend who moved from Dunkirk Maryland to Canton, NY
>last month.  I wonder how much snow they got on the Canadian border.
>How much of the white stuff did you get at home?
>

There's just a dusting in the backyard, all the concrete melted off
before we got home.

>>Then we go to my family and find out that three people have a stomach
>>flu.  We only stayed yesterday and then came home today. If I'm gonna
>>be laid up I want to do it in my own bed. ;(
>>
Truer words have not been spoken.  Woke up at midnight feeling not
well, and by one a.m. was pretty sick.  But it's now almost twelve
hours later and I've had a bit of lunch, so hopefully the worst is
past. (Really bad pun there.)

Thankfully, so far Christine & the kids have not shown signs of it, so
maybe it will pass them by.  Every one of my brothers has it now but
not the wives, I guess it's a Tilden virus or something.

JT

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22039
From: William J. Keaton" 
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 20:05:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Gosh I missed all the fun, having spent Christmas with the family in
Phoenix!

Hope all are well, and Happy Holidays!

WJaKe



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22040
From: Ed Johnson 
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 00:33:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

JT:  Was there a solar flare that I was unaware of??  (TFIC)
(I thought that concrete would sublimate without melting?)

Ed J   ;-)


On Sat, 28 Dec 2002 17:50:47 GMT, JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT) wrote:

>>How much of the white stuff did you get at home?
>>

>There's just a dusting in the backyard, all the concrete melted off
>before we got home.
          < snip >
>

>
>JT


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22041
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 15:13:49 GMT
Subject: Free Discussion is not Free 
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

My credit card has once again been charged for the "HF" membership to
SFF Net. 

To recap:  
We buy a membership in the name of the HF.  This gives a little
webspace ( http://www.sff.net/people/HF/ ) to host a FAQ and some
pictures of the group.  Also, even though SFF Net is gracious enough
to allow public access to its news server, we help to defray the costs
of that access through our joint membership.  TANSTAAFL.

So, the basic membership is $99.50 rounded to $100.  I welcome
'pledges' to cover this cost.  Minimum pledge $5, max pledge $95 (I
reserve one share for myself. <G>).  Pledges are accepted by
timestamp, if you don't need to contribute the full amount you've
pledged because I've met the cost I'll tell you.

Please EMAIL me at JT @ sff.net with your pledge.  Checks mailed to
me, I'll send you my address when I get the pledge.

Last year we once again had a RAHketteer who didn't follow through on
a pledge.  If you think about it, you know who you are!  I believe it
was honest forgetfulness, and I got too busy to worry about it.  If
you pledge this year, make an effort to get the check in the mail
right away (and I'll try to cash them quickly ;) .

We're been here on SFF Net since 1/1997--it's hard to believe.  The HF
has been continuously posting since 11/91 variously on Prodigy, GEnie,
AOL, and here.

Thanks for being my cobbers for all this time!

JT


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22042
From: fader555@aol.com (Fader)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 08:19:58 GMT
Subject: Happy New Year
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

I thought this a good New Year chuckle:

No Christmas In Washington D. C. 

The Supreme Court has ruled that there cannot be a nativity scene in
Washington, DC this Christmas. 

This isn't for any religious constitutional reason. They simply have
not been able to find three wise men and a virgin in the nation's
capital. 

There was no problem however finding enough asses to fill the stable. 


Have a good one
Fader

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22043
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 23:44:39 GMT
Subject: Re: Free Discussion is not Free 
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On Mon, 30 Dec 2002 15:13:49 GMT, JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT) wrote:


>So, the basic membership is $99.50 rounded to $100.  I welcome
>'pledges' to cover this cost.  Minimum pledge $5, max pledge $95 (I
>reserve one share for myself. <G>).  Pledges are accepted by
>timestamp, if you don't need to contribute the full amount you've
>pledged because I've met the cost I'll tell you.
>
We're up to $55 in pledges already.
>
>Last year we once again had a RAHketteer who didn't follow through on
>a pledge.  If you think about it, you know who you are!  I believe it
>was honest forgetfulness, and I got too busy to worry about it. 

It wasn't anyone who has pledged thus far this year.  If they pledge
again in time I have an extremely wet noodle ready for them <VBG>.

JT

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22044
From: William J. Keaton" 
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 00:09:09 -0500
Subject: Re: Happy New Year
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

You're early! <g>

Happy New Year!!

WJaKe



------------------------------------------------------------

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